Q4 2025 VICI Properties Inc Earnings Call

February 26, 2026

Ed Pitoniak: the best captures how value is created and sustained in a service-based business, including leisure and hospitality businesses, like gaming and other experiential categories. That model was the service profit chain, authored by a group of Harvard Business School professors that included Gary Loveman. Here's the essential dynamic of the service profit chain, as described in the original Harvard Business Review article, published in 1994. Quote, "The service profit chain establishes relationships between profitability, customer loyalty, and employee satisfaction, loyalty, and productivity. The links in the chain are as follows: Profit and growth are stimulated primarily by customer loyalty. Loyalty is a direct result of customer satisfaction. Satisfaction is largely influenced by the value of services provided to customers. Value is created by satisfied, loyal, and productive employees.

Speaker #1: Best captures how value is created and sustained in a service-based business, including leisure and hospitality businesses like gaming, and other experiential categories. That model was the service profit chain, authored by a group of Harvard Business School professors that included Gary Loveman.

Speaker #1: Here's the essential dynamic of the service profit chain as described in the original Harvard Business Review article published in 1994, quote, "The service profit chain establishes relationships between profitability, customer loyalty, and employee satisfaction, loyalty, and productivity.

Speaker #1: The links in the chain are as follows: profit and growth are stimulated primarily by customer loyalty. Loyalty is a direct result of customer satisfaction.

Speaker #1: Satisfaction is largely influenced by the value of services provided to customers. Value is created by satisfied, loyal, and productive employees. Employee satisfaction in turn results primarily from high-quality support services and policies that enable employees to deliver results to customers." This sounds simple and logical.

Ed Pitoniak: Employee satisfaction, in turn, results primarily from high-quality support services and policies that enable employees to deliver results to customers." This sounds simple and logical. Why wouldn't every service business operate this way? Well, there are lots of reasons, starting with creating and sustaining this chain is hard, ceaseless work, especially in operationally intense businesses like gaming, which operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, with multiple guest experience, service, and profit units within a single operation. Because putting the service profit chain into full effect is hard to achieve, it's worth recognizing and celebrating when it is achieved. Last year, Harvard Business School, yes, back to them again, recognized such an achievement when it published a case study entitled The Venetian Resort: Frontline Engagement as Value Driver.

Speaker #1: Why wouldn’t every service business operate this way? Well, there are lots of reasons, starting with creating and sustaining this chain is hard, ceaseless work, especially in operationally intense businesses like gaming, which operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, with multiple guest experience, service, and profit units within a single operation.

Speaker #1: Because putting the service profit chain into full effect is hard to achieve, it's worth recognizing and celebrating when it is achieved. Last year, Harvard Business School, yes, back to them again, recognized such an achievement when it published a case study entitled The Venetian Resort: Frontline Engagement as Value Driver.

Speaker #1: It's almost exactly five years ago that we announced our acquisition of The Venetian together with our partners at Apollo. The time was winter 2021, and the COVID pandemic was still severely impacting Las Vegas.

Ed Pitoniak: It's almost exactly 5 years ago that we announced our acquisition of The Venetian, together with our partners at Apollo. The time was winter 2021, the COVID pandemic was still severely impacting Las Vegas. As Apollo and VICI collectively underwrote that acquisition, our hope and our stated intention on announcement was that the asset could recover to 2019 levels of profitability by 2026. We'll let Harvard Business School tell you how we collectively fared, and I quote: "To bring Apollo's investment thesis to life, The Venetian's board of directors made 3 decisions. First, they appointed Patrick Nichols to lead the transformation. Second, they committed over $1 billion in capital to enhance the guest experience, from room renovations to convention center upgrades.

Speaker #1: As Apollo and Vichy collectively underwrote that acquisition, our hope and our stated intention on announcement was that the asset could recover to 2019 levels of profitability by 2026.

Speaker #1: We'll let Harvard Business School tell you how we collectively fared, and I quote, "To bring Apollo's investment thesis to life, The Venetian's board of directors made three decisions.

Speaker #1: First, they appointed Patrick Nichols to lead the transformation. Second, they committed over $1 billion in capital. To enhance the guest experience, from room renovations to convention center upgrades, and third, they implemented a broad-based equity-like program called The Venetian Las Vegas Appreciation Award, grounded in the belief that employee ownership could drive both cultural and operational change." Continuing the quote, "Three years later, the results were strong.

Ed Pitoniak: Third, they implemented a broad-based equity-like program called the Venetian Las Vegas Appreciation Award, grounded in the belief that employee ownership could drive both cultural and operational change. Three years later, the results were strong. Employee engagement increased materially above historic levels, signaling that cultural change was taking root. Guest satisfaction scores rebounded from pandemic lows of 56% to 61%, and the EBITDA of the property had increased from $487 million pre-pandemic to $777 million in 2024. From VICI's perspective, since Patrick Nichols took over leadership of The Venetian in early 2022, we've been privileged to witness the transformation that ensues when an experiential management team is attentive and responsive every single day to employee effectiveness and morale and its impact on guest behavior, satisfaction, and loyalty.

Speaker #1: Employee engagement and increased materially above historic levels, signaling the cultural change was taking root. Guest satisfaction scores rebounded from pandemic lows at 56% to 61%, and the EBITDA of the property had increased from $487 million pre-pandemic to $777 million in 2024," end quote.

Speaker #1: For Vichy's perspective, since Patrick Nichols took over leadership of The Venetian in early 2022, we have been privileged to witness the transformation that ensues, when an experiential management team is attentive and responsive every single day to employee effectiveness and morale, and its impact on guest behavior, satisfaction, and loyalty.

Speaker #1: I strongly encourage you to read the HBS case study on The Venetian. You can find the link to a PDF of the case study on our website, www.vichyproperties.com.

Ed Pitoniak: I strongly encourage you to read the HBS case study on The Venetian. You can find a link to a PDF of the case study on our website, www.viciproperties.com. To reiterate, given our triple net leases, we don't operate anything that goes on within our real estate, but we pay attention to operations and greatly appreciate all that our operators do every day to make our real estate relevant to their end customers. It's those end customers, after all, who produce the revenue that eventually funds our rent. With that, I'll now turn the call over to John Payne. John?

Speaker #1: To reiterate, given our triple-net leases, we don't operate anything that goes on within our real estate but we pay attention to operations and greatly appreciate all that our operators do every day to make our real estate relevant to their end customers and it's those end customers, after all, who produce the revenue that eventually funds our rent.

Speaker #1: With that, I'll now turn the call over to John Payne. John?

Speaker #2: Thanks, Ed. Good morning to everyone. As Ed highlighted, the operating prowess of our tenants is important. When we underwrite new transactions, not only are we assessing the financial profile and projections of these operating businesses, but we're also intentional about deeply understanding the partners with whom we are doing business.

John Payne: Thanks, Ed. Good morning to everyone. As Ed highlighted, the operating prowess of our tenants is important. When we underwrite new transactions, not only are we assessing the financial profile and projections of these operating businesses, but we're also intentional about deeply understanding the partners with whom we are doing business. As Ed points out, it is an operator's managerial style and ability to retain and attract consumers that filters down to the bottom line. Over the course of 2025, we formed and announced several new partnerships that we believe are emblematic of the energized, experienced, and effective operators we seek. Last February, we established a long-term strategic relationship with Cain and Eldridge Industries, two companies highly aligned with VICI on experiential real estate, through a $450 million mezzanine loan investment related to One Beverly Hills.

Speaker #2: At Edge points out, it is an operator's managerial style and ability to retain and attract consumers that filters down to the bottom line. Over the course of 2025, we've formed and announced several new partnerships that we believe are emblematic of the energized experience and effective operators we seek.

Speaker #2: Last February, we established a long-term strategic relationship with Caden Eldridge Industries, two companies highly aligned with VICI on experiential real estate, through a $450 million mezzanine loan investment related to One Beverly Hills.

Speaker #2: In May, we initiated our first partnership with Red Rock Resorts, one of the premier gaming operators through a $510 million delayed broad-term loan for the development of North Fork.

John Payne: In May, we initiated our first partnership with Red Rock Resorts, one of the premier gaming operators, through a $510 million delayed draw term loan for the development of North Fork. Red Rock's Q4 results demonstrate how their thoughtful and creative operating model is leading to superior results. In October, we welcomed Clairvest as our future 14th tenant. following the announcement of their pending acquisition of operations at MGM Northfield Park. Finally, in November, we announced a $1.16 billion sale-leaseback of seven casino properties in Nevada with Golden Entertainment and Blake Sartini, a highly seasoned gaming operator, which will add our 15th tenant when the transaction closes, which is expected later this year.

Speaker #2: Red Rock's fourth-quarter results demonstrate how their thoughtful and creative operating model is leading to superior results. In October, we welcomed Claire Vest as our future 14th tenant.

Speaker #2: Following the announcement of their pending acquisition of Operations at MGM Northfield Park, and finally, in November, we announced a $1.16 billion sale lease back of seven casino properties in Nevada with Golden Entertainment and Blake Sartini, a highly seasoned gaming operator, which will add our 15th tenant when the transaction closes, which is expected later this year.

Speaker #2: These announcements combined represent $2.1 billion of committed capital in 2025 at a weighted average initial yield of 8.9%. This volume of commitment and quality of partnership is what differentiates Vichy.

John Payne: These announcements combined represents $2.1 billion of committed capital in 2025 at a weighted average initial yield of 8.9%. This volume of commitment and quality of partnership is what differentiates VICI. I'd like to take a moment to focus on the Golden transaction. We're very proud to have announced a $1.16 billion fee-simple real estate deal in the gaming sector involving 7 properties located in Nevada, a state that is very protective of land-based brick-and-mortar gaming. We also look forward to our future partnership with Blake Sartini, current Chairman and CEO of Golden Entertainment, who we will own and control a newly formed entity that will acquire the operating business of Golden in connection with the closing of the transaction, subject to Golden shareholder vote, as well as customary closing conditions and regulatory approvals.

Speaker #2: I'd like to take a moment to focus on the Golden transaction. We're very proud to have announced a $1.16 billion fee-simple real estate deal in the gaming sector involving seven properties located in Nevada, a state that is very protective of land-based brick-and-mortar gaming.

Speaker #2: We also look forward to our future partnership with Blake Sartini, current chairman and CEO of Golden Entertainment, who we own and control a newly formed operating business of Golden in connection with the closing of the transaction.

Speaker #2: Subject to Golden shareholder vote, as well as customary closing conditions and regulatory approvals. Blake has a long-tenured history of over 30 years in casino operations and has an established reputation as an effective operator with a strategic focus on the Nevada gaming landscape.

John Payne: Blake has a long tenured history of over 30 years in casino operations and has established reputation as an effective operator with a strategic focus on Nevada gaming landscape. We hope to grow together in the coming years. At VICI, we've talked about investing in the locals, the Las Vegas locals market for years. Golden has allowed us the opportunity to do so. The market is demographically attractive. Median household income in the locals Las Vegas market has a 10-year CAGR of 5.5% compared to the national median household income 10-year CAGR of 1.9%. The Las Vegas locals market has also maintained incredible resiliency, as demonstrated by those recent market results.

Speaker #2: We hope to grow together in the coming years. At Vichy, we've talked about investing in the locals, the Las Vegas locals market for years, and Golden has allowed us the opportunity to do so.

Speaker #2: The market is demographically attractive. Medium household income in the local Las Vegas market has a 10-year TAGR of 5.5%, compared to the national median household income 10-year TAGR of 1.9%.

Speaker #2: The Las Vegas locals market has also maintained incredible resiliency as demonstrated by the most recent market results. We acknowledge that the Las Vegas script had a relatively softer 2025 compared to prior years, but as we've discussed over the last few quarters, we view 2025 as more of a normalization than a pullback.

John Payne: We acknowledge that the Las Vegas Strip had a relatively softer 2025 compared to prior years. As we've discussed over the last few quarters, we view 2025 as more of a normalization than a pullback. For instance, though the number of passengers traveling through Harry Reid Airport was down on a year-over-year basis, largely due to a dip in Canadian visitation, it was still the third busiest year in the airport's history. As John DeCree astutely noted in a recent research report, despite many domestic casino stocks being out of favor at present, credit spreads for casino companies remain tighter than ever. We agree with John that these spreads are the more appropriate barometer for the health and durability of the casino operating model.

Speaker #2: For instance, though the number of passengers traveling through Harry Reed Airport was down on a year-over-year basis, largely due to a dip in Canadian visitation, it was still the third busiest year in the airport's history.

Speaker #2: But as John DeCree astutely noted in a recent research report, despite many domestic casino stocks being out of favor at present, credit spreads for casino companies remain tighter than ever.

Speaker #2: We agree with John that these spreads are the more appropriate barometer for the health and durability of the casino operating model. Looking ahead to 2026 in Las Vegas, the strong convention calendar has already started to have an impact, with the highly attended CES in January, and with ConEdConExpo approaching in March.

John Payne: Looking ahead to 2026 in Las Vegas, the strong convention calendar has already started to have an impact with the highly attended CES in January and with CONEXPO approaching in March. The group segment that has historically been a pillar of Strip demand should provide meaningful support through the first half of 2026. Our operator's ability to react and respond to changes in the macroeconomic picture and shifting consumer demand contributes to the longevity of the experiential sectors in which we've invested and will seek to continue to diversify our partnerships across best-in-class experiential operators, just as we did in 2025. Now I will turn the call over to David, who will discuss our financial results and guidance. David?

Speaker #2: The group segment that is historically been a pillar of script demand should provide meaningful support through the first half of 2026. Our operators' ability to react and respond to changes in the macroeconomic picture and shifting consumer demand contributes to the longevity of the experiential sectors in which we've invested and will seek to continue to diversify our partnerships across best-in-class experiential operators just as we did in 2025.

Speaker #2: Now I will turn the call over to David, who will discuss our financial results and guidance. David?

Speaker #3: Great. Thank you, John. In terms of financial results, for the quarter AFFO increased 6.8% year-over-year to $642.5 million, and on a per-share basis, increased 5.6% year-over-year to $0.60.

Gabriel Wasserman: Great. Thank you, John. In terms of financial results for Q4, AFFO increased 6.8% year-over-year to $642.5 million, and on a per share basis, increased 5.6% year-over-year to $0.60. For the full year 2025, AFFO increased 6.6% year-over-year to $2.5 billion, and on a per share basis, increased 5.1% year-over-year to $2.38. This compelling growth in AFFO on a per share basis for both Q4 and full year 2025 was delivered primarily through the reinvestment of our free cash flow. We only increased our share count by 1% in 2025, highlighting VICI's ability to deliver sustainable per share returns as our portfolio continues to scale.

David Kieske: Great. Thank you, John. In terms of financial results for Q4, AFFO increased 6.8% year-over-year to $642.5 million, and on a per share basis, increased 5.6% year-over-year to $0.60. For the full year 2025, AFFO increased 6.6% year-over-year to $2.5 billion, and on a per share basis, increased 5.1% year-over-year to $2.38. This compelling growth in AFFO on a per share basis for both Q4 and full year 2025 was delivered primarily through the reinvestment of our free cash flow. We only increased our share count by 1% in 2025, highlighting VICI's ability to deliver sustainable per share returns as our portfolio continues to scale.

Speaker #3: For the full year 2025, AFFO increased 6.6% year-over-year to $2.5 billion, and on a per-share basis, increased 5.1% year-over-year to $2.38. This compelling growth in AFFO on a per-share basis for both the fourth quarter and full year 2025 was delivered primarily through the reinvestment of our free cash flow.

Speaker #3: We only increased our share count by 1% in 2025, highlighting Vichy's ability to deliver sustainable per-share returns as our portfolio continues to scale. Our results, once again, highlight our highly efficient triple-net model; our G&A was $19.3 million for the quarter, $65.1 million for the year, and as a percentage of total revenues was only 1.9% and 1.6% respectively.

Gabriel Wasserman: Our results once again highlight our highly efficient triple net model. Our G&A was $19.3 million for the quarter, $65.1 million for the year, and as a percentage of total revenues, was only 1.9% and 1.6% respectively. Our net income margin for the year was approximately 69%, one of the highest net income margins in the S&P 500. Touching on the balance sheet and liquidity, our total debt is $17.1 billion, and our net debt to annualized Q4 Adjusted EBITDA is approximately 5 times, at the low end of our target leverage range of 5 to 5.5 times. We have a weighted average interest rate of 4.46, as adjusted for our hedge activity and a weighted average 6 years to maturity.

David Kieske: Our results once again highlight our highly efficient triple net model. Our G&A was $19.3 million for the quarter, $65.1 million for the year, and as a percentage of total revenues, was only 1.9% and 1.6% respectively. Our net income margin for the year was approximately 69%, one of the highest net income margins in the S&P 500. Touching on the balance sheet and liquidity, our total debt is $17.1 billion, and our net debt to annualized Q4 Adjusted EBITDA is approximately 5 times, at the low end of our target leverage range of 5 to 5.5 times. We have a weighted average interest rate of 4.46, as adjusted for our hedge activity and a weighted average 6 years to maturity.

Speaker #3: Our net income margin for the year was approximately 69%, one of the highest net income margins in the S&P 500. Touching on the balance sheet and liquidity, our total debt is $17.1 billion, and our net debt-to-annualized fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA is approximately five times.

Speaker #3: At the low end of our target leverage range of 5 to 5 and a half times. We have a weighted average interest rate of 4.46 as adjusted for our hedge activity, and a weighted average six years to maturity.

Speaker #3: As of December 31, we have approximately 3.2 billion in total liquidity, comprised of approximately $608 million in cash, $243 million of proceeds available under our outstanding forwards, and $2.4 billion of availability under our revolver.

Gabriel Wasserman: As of 31 December, we have approximately $3.2 billion in total liquidity, comprised of approximately $608 million in cash, $243 million of proceeds available under our outstanding forwards, and $2.4 billion of availability under our revolver. In turning to guidance, as you saw in our press release last night, we are initiating AFFO guidance for 2026 in both absolute dollars as well as on a per share basis. AFFO for the year ended 31 December 2026 is expected to be between $2.59 billion and 2.625 billion, or between $2.42 and 2.45 per diluted common share.

David Kieske: As of 31 December, we have approximately $3.2 billion in total liquidity, comprised of approximately $608 million in cash, $243 million of proceeds available under our outstanding forwards, and $2.4 billion of availability under our revolver. In turning to guidance, as you saw in our press release last night, we are initiating AFFO guidance for 2026 in both absolute dollars as well as on a per share basis. AFFO for the year ended 31 December 2026 is expected to be between $2.59 billion and 2.625 billion, or between $2.42 and 2.45 per diluted common share.

Speaker #3: And turning to guidance, as you saw in our press release last night, we are initiating AFFO guidance for 2026 in both absolute dollars as well as on a per-share basis.

Speaker #3: AFFO for the year-ended December 31, 2026, is expected to be between 2.59 billion and 2.625 billion, or between $2.42 and $2.45 per diluted common share.

Speaker #3: And just as a reminder, our guidance does not include any transactions that have not closed; interest income from any loans that do not yet have final draw structures; possible future acquisitions or dispositions and related capital markets activity; or other non-recurring transactions or items.

[Company Representative] (VICI Properties): Just as a reminder, our guidance does not include any transactions that have not closed, interest income from any loans that do not yet have final draw structures, possible future acquisitions or dispositions, and related capital markets activity or other non-recurring transactions or items. With that, Adam, please open the line for questions.

David Kieske: Just as a reminder, our guidance does not include any transactions that have not closed, interest income from any loans that do not yet have final draw structures, possible future acquisitions or dispositions, and related capital markets activity or other non-recurring transactions or items. With that, Adam, please open the line for questions.

Speaker #3: With that, Adam, please open the line for questions.

Operator: Of course. If you'd like to ask any question on today's call, please press Star followed by one on your telephone keypad. If you wish to withdraw, please press Star followed by two. Participants are asked to limit themselves to one question plus one follow-up each. Our first question comes from Caitlin Burrows from Goldman Sachs. Caitlin, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #4: Of course. If you'd like to ask a question on today's call, please press star followed by one (*) on your telephone keypad. If you wish to withdraw, please press star followed by two (*2).

Speaker #4: Participants are asked to limit themselves to one question plus one follow-up each. And our first question comes from Caitlin Burroughs from Goldman Sachs. Caitlin, please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Your line is open.

Speaker #5: Hi, everyone. Good morning. I guess it seems like you guys have had some preliminary discussions with Caesars regarding the master lease, so wondering if you could give any updates on what has been discussed, potential update potential outcomes and timing, and to the extent you don't want to discuss those, perhaps you could say maybe what's off the table or that an announcement before X date is probably not reasonable.

Caitlin Burrows: Hi, everyone. Good morning. I guess it seems like you guys have had some preliminary discussions with Caesars regarding the master lease. Wondering if you could give any updates on what has been discussed, potential update, potential outcomes and timing, and to the extent you don't want to discuss those, perhaps you could say maybe what's off the table or that an announcement before X date is probably not reasonable?

Speaker #6: Yeah. Good morning, Caitlin. Good to talk to you. Yeah, we're obviously not going to get into any kind of detail on what we might have discussed already with Caesars or, more importantly, what we will be discussing.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah. Good morning, Caitlin. Good to talk to you. Yeah, we're obviously not gonna get into any kind of detail on what we might have discussed already with Caesars or more importantly, what we will be discussing. What I want to emphasize, Caitlin, is that as we address lease issues with Caesars, we're going to do so within the context of our overall approach to portfolio and risk management, so that any solutions that we develop and agree to with Caesars help further our larger portfolio goals of optimizing our exposure to any single tenant, to any single category, to any single geography. That's the way in which we will evaluate any possible solutions that get shared at the table.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah. Good morning, Caitlin. Good to talk to you. Yeah, we're obviously not going to get into any kind of detail on what we might have discussed already with Caesars or more importantly, what we will be discussing. What I want to emphasize, Caitlin, is that as we address lease issues with Caesars, we're going to do so within the context of our overall approach to portfolio and risk management, so that any solutions that we develop and agree to with Caesars help further our larger portfolio goals of optimizing our exposure to any single tenant, to any single category, to any single geography. That's the way in which we will evaluate any possible solutions that get shared at the table.

Speaker #6: But what I want to emphasize, Caitlin, is that as we address lease issues with Caesars, we're going to do so within the context of our overall approach to portfolio and risk management, so that any solutions that we develop and agree to with Caesars help further our larger portfolio goals of optimizing our exposure to any single tenant, to any single category, to any single geography.

Speaker #6: And that's the way in which we will evaluate any possible solutions that get shared at the table. We can't, obviously, and won't specify any single date by which an agreement is made, or arrived at.

Ed Pitoniak: We can't obviously and won't specify any single date by which an agreement is made or arrived at. I would reemphasize the degree to which our history over 8 years has been a history in which we've continually used our strategies to achieve our goal of getting better. I would remind everyone, not that probably anyone needs reminding, that we started out with 100% exposure to Caesars and only Caesars. Today, we're in the high 30s as a percentage of our annual rent roll. What we undertake with Caesars, again, will be a solution that we believe can and will be a win-win, but win-win for us in so far as it also helps further our portfolio optimization goals.

Speaker #6: But I would re-emphasize that—to the degree to which our history over eight years has been a history in which we've continually used our strategies to achieve our goal of getting better.

Speaker #6: I would remind everyone, not that probably anyone needs reminding, that we started out with 100% exposure to Caesars and only Caesars. Today, we're in the high 30s, as a percentage of our annual rent roll.

Speaker #6: But what we undertake with Caesars, again, will be a solution that we believe can and will be a win-win but win-win for us insofar as it also helps further our portfolio optimization goals.

Speaker #5: Got it. Okay. And then I guess I saw on the 10-K that it mentioned you had placed the senior loan collateralized by a golf development on non-accrual status.

Caitlin Burrows: Got it. Okay. I guess I saw in the 10-K that it mentioned you had placed a senior loan collateralized by a golf development on non-accrual status. Wondering, can you give more color on this? Maybe what visibility you had, what's going on at the property, and any assumed impact to AFFO in 2026 guidance.

Speaker #5: So wondering, can you give more color on this? Maybe what visibility you had, what's going on at the property, and any assumed impact to AFFO in 2026 guidance?

Speaker #6: Yeah. So one of the benefits for us, Caitlin, of having so small a partner roster, whether it be on the asset investment side or on the lending side, is that when issues do arise, we are able to get all over them.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah. One of the benefits for us, Caitlin, of having so small a partner roster, whether it be on the asset investment side or on the lending side, is that when issues do arise, we are able to get all over them. In this particular case, it became clear that our partner, in this case, the borrower, was facing a working capital issue, we made it what we think is a very sound tactical decision in relation to this tactical issue of making sure that they would have the working capital to continue to operate and develop in a way that preserves the value of the property, so that during that time, they could also focus on recapitalization on their side. They are working very intensely on that, and we are tracking that with them day by day.

Speaker #6: In this particular case, it became clear that our partner in this case, the borrower, was facing a working capital issue, and we made what we think is a very sound tactical decision in relation to this tactical issue of making sure that they would have the working capital to continue to operate and develop in a way that preserves the value of the property so that during that time, they could also focus on recapitalization on their side and they are working very intensely on that, and we are tracking that with them day by day.

Speaker #6: In terms of any impact on earnings for 2026, again, this is a de minimis part of both our loan book and, of course, our overall asset base.

Ed Pitoniak: In terms of any impact on earnings for 2026, again, this is a de minimis part of both our loan book and, of course, our overall asset base. Gabe, I don't know if you want to offer any thoughts in regard to Caitlin's question around earnings impact.

Speaker #6: But Gabe, I don't know if you want to offer any thoughts in regard to Caitlin's question around earnings impact.

Speaker #7: Yeah, I'd just reiterate: it is de minimis, and it's not included in guidance for 2026.

[Company Representative] (VICI Properties): Yeah. I'd just reiterate it is de minimis, and it is not included in guidance for 2026.

Speaker #5: By not included, you mean there's not a headwind included?

Caitlin Burrows: By not included, you mean there's not a headwind included?

Speaker #7: Correct. There's no income related to that loan included in 2026 guidance.

[Company Representative] (VICI Properties): Correct. There's no income, related to that loan included in 2026 guidance.

Speaker #5: Got it. Thanks.

Caitlin Burrows: Got it. Thanks.

Speaker #4: The next question comes from Barry Jonas from Trivist. Barry, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Operator: The next question comes from Barry Jonas from Truist. Barry, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #8: Hey, guys. Good morning. I mean, I guess just broadly speaking, can you talk about the deal environment, what you're seeing out there between Sally, Spacker, increasing loan book discussions?

Barry Jonas: Hey, guys. Good morning. I mean, I guess just broadly speaking, can you talk about the deal environment, what you're seeing out there between sale-leaseback or increasing loan book discussions? Thank you.

Speaker #8: Thank you.

Speaker #6: John?

Ed Pitoniak: John?

Speaker #9: Yeah. Good morning, Barry. It's nice to speak with you. And I know we've talked before. I can't tell you exactly what's in our pipeline, but I will take a moment to I do think it's important to remind everyone what we at Vichy, we get paid for.

John Payne: Yeah, good morning, Barry. It's nice to speak with you. I know we've talked before. I can't tell you exactly what's in our pipeline, but I will take a moment, I do think it's important to remind everyone what we, at VICI, get paid for. You know, on the short-term incentive, it's 100% based on a rolling two-year AFFO per share growth. Our long-term incentive is based on an absolute relative total return, and we aim for 8% to 10% total return annually. I simply bring that up to orient you on how we approach the pipeline and external growth. We're all very clear here, and we have been since we started the company, that we need to line up sustainable external growth.

Speaker #9: On the short term incentive, it's 100% based on a rolling two-year AFFO per share growth. And our long-term incentive is based on an absolute relative total return.

Speaker #9: And we aim for 8 to 10 percent total return annually. And I simply bring that up to orient you on how we approach the pipeline and external growth.

Speaker #9: We're all very clear here, and we have been since we started the company, that we need to line up sustainable external growth. So with that said, we continue to prioritize real estate ownership while also using our loan book, as we've talked about, to develop new relationships.

John Payne: With that said, we continue to prioritize real estate ownership while also using our loan book, as we've talked about, to develop new relationships. We continue to be active. I'll remind you, Barry, from at this point last year, I think we had only announced our partnership with Cain and Eldridge. We had not even announced our partnership with Red Rock Resorts or Golden this time last year. We continue to do our work. We're aware of, we'll continue our, to employ our relationship-based approach to future transactions, and we feel good about what's out there.

Speaker #9: So we continue to be active. I'll remind you, Barry, from at this point last year, I think we had only announced our partnership with Cane and Eldridge we had not even announced our partnership with Red Rock Resorts or Golden this time last year.

Speaker #9: So we continue to do our work. We're aware of we'll continue to employ our relationship-based approach to future transactions. And we feel good about what's out there.

Speaker #8: Got it. And then maybe related, maybe not, but I noticed there's a change in your accounting leadership with Mr. Wasserman moving to an expanded role.

Haendel St. Juste: Got it. Then, maybe related, maybe not, but I noticed there's a change in your accounting leadership with Mr. Wasserman moving to an expanded role, for biz dev and experiential credit solutions. Just wondering if any ramifications to Gabe's shift there as you think about VICI's strategy or focus.

Speaker #8: For BizDev and Experiential Credit Solutions. So just wondering if any ramifications to Gabe's shift there as you think about Vichy's strategy or focus.

Speaker #6: John and Gabe?

Ed Pitoniak: John and Gabe?

John Payne: Well, Gabe is on the call right now, so I don't want this to go to his head a little bit, Barry, but I couldn't be more excited to have Gabe shift over and help me and help us grow our business development. He's gonna be a great resource. He's already been working with me for the past couple of months primarily on non-gaming and experiential, but I know the whole company, but particularly me, is excited to have him be working on business development. He is on the call. He can weigh in as well if he'd like.

John Payne: Well, Gabe is on the call right now, so I don't want this to go to his head a little bit, Barry, but I couldn't be more excited to have Gabe shift over and help me and help us grow our business development. He's going to be a great resource. He's already been working with me for the past couple of months primarily on non-gaming and experiential, but I know the whole company, but particularly me, is excited to have him be working on business development. He is on the call. He can weigh in as well if he'd like.

Speaker #9: Well, Gabe is on the call right now, so I don't want this to go to his head a little bit, Barry. But I couldn't be more excited to have Gabe shift over and help me and help us grow our business development.

Speaker #9: He's going to be a great resource has already been working with me for the past couple of months on primarily on non-gaming and experiential.

Speaker #9: But I know the whole company, but particularly me, is excited to have him be working on business development. He is on the call. He can weigh in as well if he'd like.

Speaker #7: Yeah. Hey, Barry. Thanks for the shout-out and also want to give a shout-out to Jeremy Waxmann, the new chief accounting officer. Jeremy's been part of the team.

Gabriel Wasserman: Yeah. Hey, Barry.

Ed Pitoniak: Gabe?

Gabriel Wasserman: Thanks for the shout-out. Also wanna give a shout-out to Jeremy Waxman, you know, the new Chief Accounting Officer. Jeremy's been part of the team for eight years, joined at the same time as I did. We're all incredibly excited for his promotion here, he'll continue to do a great job on the accounting side.

Gabriel Wasserman: Thanks for the shout-out. Also want to give a shout-out to Jeremy Waxman, you know, the new Chief Accounting Officer. Jeremy's been part of the team for eight years, joined at the same time as I did. We're all incredibly excited for his promotion here, he'll continue to do a great job on the accounting side.

Speaker #7: For eight years, joined at the same time as I did, and we're all incredibly excited for his promotion here and he'll continue to do a great job on the accounting side.

Speaker #9: Great. Thank you, guys.

Haendel St. Juste: Great. Thank you, guys.

Speaker #4: The next question comes from Greg McInnis from Scotiabank. Greg, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Operator: The next question comes from Greg McGinniss from Scotiabank. Greg, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Greg McGinniss: Hey, good morning. I was just hoping you could talk about the rationale between on the Greektown-Margaritaville combination lease adjustment there, and, you know, the genesis of how that deal actually happened, who approached who. Any color would be appreciated.

Speaker #10: Hey, good morning. I was just hoping you could talk about the rationale between on the Greektown Margaritaville combination, lease adjustment there, and the genesis of how that deal actually happened, who approached who, so any color would be appreciated.

Speaker #6: John?

Ed Pitoniak: John?

Speaker #9: Good morning, Greg. It's nice to hear from you. Just about who approaches who. Remember, because we only have 13, 14, 15 tenants, we're always talking about a variety of things, whether that's with Penn or with any of the others.

John Payne: Good morning, Greg. It's nice to hear from you. Just about who approaches who, remember, because we only have 13, 14, 15 tenants, we're always talking about a variety of things, whether that's with PENN or with any of the others. Regarding the combination of the leases, you know, we really saw the opportunity to combine 2 leases, simplify the escalation structure, remove the volatility by eliminating the percentage of rent. This combination clearly enhances our credit protections by cross-collateralizing 2 of our assets in a master lease with a corporate guarantee, while at the same time, it did not change the amount of rent collected by VICI this year. We saw it as a really good opportunity. Both sides came together and renegotiated, and obviously, we announced it when we put out our earnings last night.

Speaker #9: Regarding the combination of the leases, we really saw the opportunity to combine two leases. Simplify the escalation structure, remove the volatility by eliminating the percentage of rent, this combination clearly enhances our credit protections by cross-collateralizing two of our assets in a master lease with a corporate guarantee.

Speaker #9: While at the same time, it did not change the amount of rent collected by Vichy this year. So we saw it as a really good opportunity on both sides came together, and we negotiated, and obviously, we announced it when we put out our earnings last night.

Greg McGinniss: Okay, thanks. You know, speaking of the kind of limited, you know, tenancy and the relationships that you're building, you know, on the debt side, how do the debt investments, you know, like with Red Rock as the builder out at the tribal casino, impact your relationship with them and the discussions that you have with them, or how frequently you're communicating with them, right? Like, how do you view kind of the long-term benefit of that transaction versus, you know, just stepping in as bank adjacent, you know, someone that has a pocketbook as opposed to someone that's a long-term partner?

Speaker #7: And speaking of kind of limited tenancy and the relationships that you're building, on the debt side, how do the debt investments, like with Red Rock as the builder out the tribal casino, impact your relationship with them and the discussions that you have with them or how frequently you're communicating with them, right?

Speaker #7: So how do you view kind of the long-term benefit of that transaction versus just stepping in as Bank adjacent, someone that has a pocketbook as opposed to someone that's a long-term partner?

Speaker #6: David?

Ed Pitoniak: David?

Speaker #7: Yeah. Greg, it's a good question because we approach all of our investments from a fundamental relationship-based position. And particularly with Red Rock, as we announced as we talked about when we announced that last year, I mean, John and Ed and the team and I have been meeting with Frank Lorenzo and Stevie and the team for years.

Gabriel Wasserman: Yeah, Greg, it's a good question because we approach all of our investments from a fundamental relationship-based position. Particularly the Red Rock, as we talked about when we announced that last year. I mean, John and Ed and the team and I have been meeting with Frank Fertitta and Steve and team for years, just getting to know them, getting to know their business. When they called us last fall to come into that syndicate, it was very much this is a way to continue to grow that relationship and develop that relationship. We still have frequent dialogue with them, even though they are the developer and the tribe will operate the asset. It's via Red Rock relationship that we did that investment with their credibility and expertise around development.

David Kieske: Yeah, Greg, it's a good question because we approach all of our investments from a fundamental relationship-based position. Particularly the Red Rock, as we talked about when we announced that last year. I mean, John and Ed and the team and I have been meeting with Frank Fertitta and Steve and team for years, just getting to know them, getting to know their business. When they called us last fall to come into that syndicate, it was very much this is a way to continue to grow that relationship and develop that relationship. We still have frequent dialogue with them, even though they are the developer and the tribe will operate the asset. It's via Red Rock relationship that we did that investment with their credibility and expertise around development.

Speaker #7: And just getting to know them, getting to know their business. And when they called us last fall to come into that syndicate, it was very much this is a way to continue to grow that relationship and develop that relationship.

Speaker #7: And we still have frequent dialogue with them, even though they are the developer and the tribal operate the asset. But it's via Red Rock relationship that we did that investment with their credibility and expertise around development.

Speaker #7: If you've been out or seen any renderings of the North Fork asset, it's on time and slightly under budget, and we'll open here in the fall.

Gabriel Wasserman: If you've been out or seen any renderings of the Northfield asset, it's on time and slightly under budget and will open here in the fall. We are not just a lend and stick the credit on the shelf and walk away. It's everything is relationship based, and who's our partner, and is there strategic merits to the capital that we deploy, whether it be through equity investments or the debt investments.

David Kieske: If you've been out or seen any renderings of the Northfield asset, it's on time and slightly under budget and will open here in the fall. We are not just a lend and stick the credit on the shelf and walk away. It's everything is relationship based, and who's our partner, and is there strategic merits to the capital that we deploy, whether it be through equity investments or the debt investments.

Speaker #7: So, we are not just a lend-and-stick-the-credit-on-the-shelf and walk away. Everything is relationship-based, and who's our partner, and is there strategic merit to the capital that we deploy.

Speaker #7: Whether it be through equity investments or the debt investments.

Speaker #4: Okay. Thank you. The next question comes from Handos and Just from Mizuho. Hando, your line is open. Please go ahead.

Greg McGinniss: Okay, thank you.

Operator: The next question comes from Haendel St. Juste from Mizuho. Handel, your line is open. Please go ahead.

Haendel St. Juste: Thank you for taking the question. First question is on the guidance. I'm just saying a large majority of the growth you have is locked in through your bumps. I guess I'm curious on some of the variables that could, you know, drive us to the upper and lower end of the range. I know it's not a wide range, but it also doesn't assume transactions or capital markets. Some thoughts there and maybe also some thoughts on the debt coming due later this year. I think it's $1.75 billion in the low 4% range. Thanks.

Speaker #11: Hey. Thank you for taking the question. First question is on the guidance. Understanding a large majority of the growth that you have is locked in through your bumps.

Speaker #11: So I guess I'm curious on some of the variables that could drive us to the upper and lower end of the range. I know it's not a wide range.

Speaker #11: But it also doesn't assume transactions or capital markets. So some thoughts there. And maybe also some thoughts on the debt coming due later this year.

Speaker #11: I think it's 1.75 billion and a low 4% range. Thanks.

Speaker #6: Yeah. Yeah. Hando, I'll start, and then I'm going to hand it over to David. Yeah. We obviously do not guide to investment activity that is not yet been announced or even to loan draws that haven't been formally calendarized.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, yeah, Handel, I'll start, and then I'm gonna hand it over to David. We obviously do not guide to investment activity that has not yet been announced, or even to loan draws that haven't been formally calendarized. You know, that's obviously. That sets us apart somewhat. When we boil down the key reasons as to why we don't give investment guidance, like many of our net lease peers do, there's really, I think, two key reasons. The first one is obviously, visibility and predictability would be hard to achieve. Secondly,

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, yeah, Handel, I'll start, and then I'm going to hand it over to David. We obviously do not guide to investment activity that has not yet been announced, or even to loan draws that haven't been formally calendarized. You know, that's obviously. That sets us apart somewhat. When we boil down the key reasons as to why we don't give investment guidance, like many of our net lease peers do, there's really, I think, two key reasons. The first one is obviously, visibility and predictability would be hard to achieve. Secondly,

Speaker #6: And that's obviously that sets us apart somewhat. And when we boil down the key reasons as to why we don't give investment guidance, like many of our net lease peers do, there's really, I think, two key reasons.

Speaker #6: The first one is obviously visibility and predictability would be hard to achieve. Secondly, I, as a risk manager, am a little hesitant around the whole idea of investment guidance because if you give an investment target and you don't know exactly with certainty how you're going to achieve it, it can in some cases, I'm not saying all, it can in some cases lead investment teams to make investments for the sake of making damn sure they hit the target.

Ed Pitoniak: I, as a risk manager, am a little hesitant around the whole idea of investment guidance, because if you, if you give an investment target and you don't know exactly with certainty how you're going to achieve it can, in some cases, I'm not saying all, it can in some cases lead investment teams to make investments for the sake of making damn sure they hit the target, and that can often be a road to trouble. I will now turn it over to David to answer the back half of your question.

Speaker #6: And that can often be a road to trouble. But I will now turn it over to David to answer the back half of your question.

Speaker #7: Yeah. Just in terms of the range handout, I mean, we have some draw schedules for Kalahari, North Fork that we just talked about and a few others.

Gabriel Wasserman: Just in terms of the range, Endel, I mean, we have some draw schedules for, you know, Kalahari, Northfork that we just talked about and a few others, so we, you know, bake in some flexibility around that. In terms of percentages that they may draw each month, there's obviously, you go down our income statement, there's not a lot of other lines.

Speaker #7: So we bake in some flexibility around that in terms of percentages that they may draw each month. There's obviously you go down our income statement.

Speaker #7: There's not a lot of other lines. There's a little bit of fluctuation around interest income. And then we do bake in some conservatism, not specificity around the refis in which you've mentioned that we have upcoming at the end of this year.

Gabriel Wasserman: There's a little bit of fluctuation around G&A, there's a little bit of fluctuation on interest income. We do bake in some conservatism, not specificity, around the refis, you know, with which you've mentioned that we have upcoming at the end of this year, as maturity in September of $500 million and a maturity in December of $1.25 billion. You roll into the first part of 2027, and we have another, you know, $1.5 billion coming due. We'll look to access the, wasn't exactly your question, but look to access the bond market, you know, later this year, obviously, ahead of those maturities to continue to term out our debt wall, debt ladder, as we have been doing since inception.

Speaker #7: As maturity in September, 500 million and a maturity in December of 1.25 billion. And then you roll into the first part of '27, and we have another billion and a half coming due.

Speaker #7: So we'll look to access the wasn't exactly your question, but we'll look to access the bond market, later this year, obviously ahead of those maturities to continue to term out our debt wall, debt ladder, as we have been doing since inception.

Speaker #11: Would your preference be to do term and just curious, I'm kind of where you see the ballpark estimated cost of new unsecured debt?

Haendel St. Juste: Would your preference be to do term? Just curious on kind of where you see the ballpark estimated cost of new unsecured debt.

Speaker #7: Yeah. We're getting close and kind of on a 10-year is how we look at it. 125, 130 over the 10-year right now. So I don't know what the 10-year is exactly this morning, but low fives, all-in coupon.

Gabriel Wasserman: Yeah, we're getting close and kind of on a 10-year is how we look at it, you know, 125, 130 over the 10-year right now. I don't know what the 10-year is exactly this morning, but low 5s, you know, all in coupon. As we've done last year, a mix of, you know, 10s, we'd love to do 10s, 30s if the market's there, but we've got optionality in a very deep fixed income investor base that we're very grateful for and will come to the market at the right time for the company.

Speaker #7: So as we've done last year, mix of 10s, we'd love to do 10s, 30s if the market's there. But we've got optionality in a very deep fixed income investor base that we're very grateful for.

Speaker #7: And we'll come to the market at the right time for the company.

Speaker #11: Got it. Got it. My second question is on gold. And I wanted to go back to the pricing on that transaction for a moment.

Haendel St. Juste: Got it. Got it. My second question is on Golden. Wanted to go back to the pricing on that transaction for a moment. I appreciate the stats on the Las Vegas local market. Certainly some encouraging things we heard there, but the mid-seven cap rates inside of where we've seen other regional deals trade, largely in the 8% plus range. Curious how we should think about, and how you think about cap rates for regional versus strip assets going forward, and if this is a new pricing level you think or are expecting in the market? Thanks.

Speaker #11: I appreciate the stats on the Las Vegas local market. Certainly something encouraging things we heard there. But the mid-7 cap rates inside of where we've seen other regional deals trade, largely in the 8% plus rate.

Speaker #11: So, curious how we should think about, and how you're thinking about, cap rates for regional versus Strip assets going forward. And if this is a new pricing level you think, or are expecting, in the market.

Speaker #11: Thanks.

Speaker #6: John? David?

Ed Pitoniak: John? David?

Speaker #8: Yeah. Look, we felt very good about the pricing. Being able to get seven assets with a team of gold, and then being able to operate them and understand them, and then also be able to grow with them—we felt that that was the appropriate price at the time.

John Payne: Yeah, look, we felt very good about the pricing. Being able to get 7 assets, with a team of Golden and them being able to operate them and understand them, and then also be able to grow with them, we felt that was the appropriate price at the time. We are obviously getting more exposure to Nevada, which we're excited about, so it's easy to kind of lump everything into regional assets, but there's no question there's a big difference between middle market regional assets, as well as what we describe as Nevada regional or local assets. We think the price was appropriate for getting a whole portfolio of assets and helping the team grow their business. I think over the years, we would hope that we do more with the Golden team.

Speaker #8: We are obviously getting more exposure to Nevada, which we're excited about. So it's easy to kind of lump everything into regional assets. But there's no question there's a big difference between middle-market regional assets as well as what we described as Nevada regional or local assets.

Speaker #8: So we think the price was appropriate for getting a whole portfolio of assets. And helping a team grow their business. And I think over the years, we would hope that we do more with the golden team.

Speaker #8: David,

John Payne: David, anything to add?

Speaker #7: No, you covered it well. There is a difference between regional assets and the local market, and the regulatory environment in Nevada—or the importance of the regulatory environment in Nevada—and the bricks and mortar, and the income and the taxes that they generate, and the employment base that they support through that state and their economy.

Gabriel Wasserman: No, you covered it well. There is a difference between regional assets in the locals market and the regulatory environment that Nevada, or the importance of the regulatory environment in Nevada, and the bricks and mortar and the income and the taxes that they generate and the employment base that they support through that state and their economy.

David Kieske: No, you covered it well. There is a difference between regional assets in the locals market and the regulatory environment that Nevada, or the importance of the regulatory environment in Nevada, and the bricks and mortar and the income and the taxes that they generate and the employment base that they support through that state and their economy.

Speaker #11: Got it. Got it. Thank you, guys.

Haendel St. Juste: Got it. Thank you, guys.

Operator: The next question comes from Jim Kammert from Evercore. Jim, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #6: The next question comes from Jim Kamatz from Evercore. Jim, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Jim Kammert: Thank you. Good morning. It seems like Sphere Entertainment is pretty likely to go forward on their deal down National Harbor. I'm just curious, has VICI had any talks with Sphere or their Pearson Company partners about participating in that deal?

Speaker #12: Thank you. Good morning. It seems like Sphere Entertainment is pretty likely to go forward on their deal down National Harbor. I'm just curious, does Vichy had any talks with the Sphere or their Peterson company partners about participating in that deal?

Jamie Kammert: Thank you. Good morning. It seems like Sphere Entertainment is pretty likely to go forward on their deal down National Harbor. I'm just curious, has VICI had any talks with Sphere or their Pearson Company partners about participating in that deal?

Speaker #6: Well, Jim, good to talk to you. Obviously, we don't really we never talk about deals in progress of any kind or whether or not any kind of conversations are in progress.

Ed Pitoniak: Well, Jim, good to talk to you. Obviously, we never talk about deals in progress of any kind or whether or not any kind of conversations are in progress. I guess I will say that we've been obviously able to have a ringside seat on Sphere's success at The Venetian. You know, from what we have seen and heard and witnessed through the results, Sphere has created, obviously, a very compelling offering. Sphere is run by a very strong management team, not only on the entertainment programming side, but on the construction and development and risk management side. We're obviously paying attention, and perhaps I'll leave it at there, unless any of my colleagues want to offer anything more.

Speaker #6: But I guess I will say that we've been obviously able to have a ringside seat on Sphere's success at the Venetian and from what we have seen and heard and witnessed through the results, Sphere has created obviously a very compelling offering.

Speaker #6: Sphere is run by a very strong management team not only on the entertainment programming side but on the construction and development and risk management side so we're obviously paying attention and perhaps I'll leave it in there unless any of my colleagues want to offer anything more.

Speaker #8: The only thing I would add is that we're receiving this potentially could go obviously we are the owners of National Harbor and MGM runs it and what we've seen as Ed mentioned in Las Vegas for the Sphere is the amount of new customers that get attracted to that.

John Payne: The only thing I would add, Ed, is that where we're seeing this potentially could go, obviously we are the owners of National Harbor, and MGM runs it. What we've seen, as Ed mentioned in Las Vegas for the Sphere, is the amount of new customers that get attracted to that. It could only help our business and MGM's business should the Sphere, the next Sphere be built on that campus.

Speaker #8: So it could only help our business, and MGM's business, should the Sphere—the next Sphere—be built on that campus.

Jim Kammert: That's helpful. Thank you. Appreciate the caveats. I know, Ed, again, you can't really speak to, you know, the Caesars discussions, but given the strong rapport between the two companies, I mean, can you say, is there just a sort of like a regular, to use your term, calendarized sort of series of discussions? I mean, is this ongoing, or is this sporadic? I'm just trying to understand-

Jamie Kammert: That's helpful. Thank you. Appreciate the caveats. I know, Ed, again, you can't really speak to, you know, the Caesars discussions, but given the strong rapport between the two companies, I mean, can you say, is there just a sort of like a regular, to use your term, calendarized sort of series of discussions? I mean, is this ongoing, or is this sporadic? I'm just trying to understand. Kind of what the interaction feels like?

Speaker #12: That's helpful. Thank you. Appreciate the caveats. And then I know, Ed, again, you can't really speak to the seizure discussions. But given the strong rapport between the two companies, I mean, can you say is there just a sort of like a regular to user term calendarized sort of series of discussions?

Speaker #12: I mean, is this an ongoing or is it just sporadic? I'm just trying to understand kind of what the interaction feels like.

Operator: ... Kind of what the interaction feels like?

Speaker #6: Yeah, yeah. It's obviously regular by nature of us needing, obviously, to have a regular dialogue with the single biggest tenant on our rent roll.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, I, it's obviously, it's regular by nature of us needing, obviously, to have a regular dialogue with the single biggest tenant on our rent roll. You know, again, there's conversations that obviously have to take place around issues that are not necessarily specific to the regional lease. John, I don't know if you wanna add any more than that.

Speaker #6: And again, there are conversations that obviously have to take place around issues that are not necessarily specific to the regional lease. But John, I don't know if you want to add any more than that?

Speaker #8: No. Look, I mean, if the question was just about the lease, that's a different question than are we talking to Caesars and our tenants about their business to understand the trends.

John Payne: No, look, I mean, we, if the question was just about the lease, that's a different question than are we talking to Caesars and our tenants about their business to understand the trends. The latter we do all the time, and it's again one of the benefits of our model, where we don't have 500 or 1,000 tenants where you can't understand the business and trends. By having 14, 15 tenants, we can talk to them and understand specifics about our assets. I speak frequently. Danny, the lawyer who works in our group, speaks frequently, not only with Caesars, but really all our operators.

Speaker #8: And the latter, we do all the time. And it's, again, one of the benefits of our model where we don't have 500 or 1,000 tenants where you can't understand the business and trends.

Speaker #8: By having 14, 15 tenants, we can talk to them and understand specifics about our assets. So I speak frequently. Danny, the lawyer, works in our group, speaks frequently not only with Caesars but really all our operators.

Speaker #6: Yeah. And let me just reiterate, Jim, yeah, and let me just reiterate, Jim, what I said in response to Caitlin's question at the outset.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, let me just reiterate, Jim, what I said in response to Caitlin's question at the outset. For both Caesars and for us, I really believe the ultimate best solutions will be solutions that simply do not only address issues of lease coverage, but solutions that enhance both portfolios. Which is to say, I think there's going to be multiple levers, multiple strategies to achieve portfolio optimization for both parties.

Speaker #6: For both Caesars and for us, I really believe the ultimate best solutions will be solutions that simply do not only address issues of lease coverage but solutions that enhance both portfolios.

Speaker #6: Which is to say, I think there's going to be multiple levers multiple strategies to achieve portfolio optimization for both parties.

Speaker #12: All right. Thank you all.

Operator: All right. Thank you. Thank you all.

Jamie Kammert: All right. Thank you. Thank you all.

Speaker #6: Thank you, Jim.

Ed Pitoniak: Thank you, Jim.

Speaker #12: The next question comes from Anthony Paulone from JPMorgan. Anthony, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Operator: The next question comes from Anthony Paolone from J.P. Morgan. Anthony, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #11: Yeah. Thanks. Maybe for John, can you go through some of the bigger buckets of investments and give us a sense as to where you're more or less active in terms of seeing things these days whether it's sports, wellness, gaming, international, and so forth?

Anthony Paolone: Yeah, thanks. Maybe for John, can you go through some of the bigger buckets of investments and give us a sense as to where you're more or less active in terms of seeing things these days, whether it's sports, wellness, gaming, international, and so forth?

Speaker #8: Yeah. Good morning, Tony. I'd just say yes. But let me just give you some, really—I'll talk about experiential. Obviously, we'll continue to grow our gaming portfolio.

John Payne: Yeah, good morning, Tony. I'd just say yes. Let me just give you some really I'll talk about experiential. Obviously, we'll continue to grow our gaming portfolio. I feel that we're well aware of potential opportunities in that space, really all over the world, obviously, here in the US. When we turn to experiential or non-gaming, there's a couple of areas I'll just touch on. Don't assume that's all we're looking at, we only have 35 seconds here for me to talk about this. A little bit about, you mentioned sports. This has been really interesting for me, and you hear Dave's in a new role. He's spent a lot of time on this. We're in discussions with a variety of sports operators, teams, leagues.

Speaker #8: And I feel that we're well aware of potential opportunities in that space. Really all over the world. Obviously, here in the US. When we turn to experiential or non-gaming, there's a couple of areas I'll just touch on.

Speaker #8: And don't assume that's all we're looking at. But we only have 35 seconds here for me to talk about this. So, a little bit about—you mentioned sports.

Speaker #8: And this has been really interesting for me, and you hear Gabe's in a new role. He's spent a lot of time on this. And we're in discussions with a variety of sports operators, teams, leagues.

Speaker #8: And frankly, it just takes time. Just like it did when we started the company, taking time to learn all the gaming operators. We're needing to take time to introduce ourselves to sports operators, teams, and leads.

John Payne: Frankly, it just takes time, just like it did when we started the company, taking time to learn all the gaming operators, we're needing to take time to introduce ourselves to sports operators, teams, and leagues. Frankly, the sports financing world is changing rapidly. You can pick up in the, you know, your news, however you get your news. I almost said newspaper, no one does that anymore. But pick up your news and look, and you'll see, there's always something happening in the sports finance world. Really, whether it's a university, whether it's a pro team, they wanna understand their options before moving forward. What I'd tell you about the VICI team is, we're getting in front of the right people.

John Payne: Frankly, it just takes time, just like it did when we started the company, taking time to learn all the gaming operators, we're needing to take time to introduce ourselves to sports operators, teams, and leagues. Frankly, the sports financing world is changing rapidly. You can pick up in the, you know, your news, however you get your news. I almost said newspaper, no one does that anymore. But pick up your news and look, and you'll see, there's always something happening in the sports finance world. Really, whether it's a university, whether it's a pro team, they want to understand their options before moving forward. What I'd tell you about the VICI team is, we're getting in front of the right people.

Speaker #8: And frankly, the sports financing world is changing rapidly. You can pick up the your news however you get your news. I almost said newspaper.

Speaker #8: No one does that anymore. But pick up your news and look and you'll see there's always something happening in the sports finance world. And really, whether it's a university, whether it's a pro team, they want to understand their options before moving forward.

Speaker #8: What I tell you about the VG team is we're getting in front of the right people. We're staying patient because we really do believe there's an opportunity for great growth in the sports infrastructure space.

John Payne: We're staying patient because we really do believe there's an opportunity for great growth in the sports infrastructure space. The other area we're spending time with, because we really like the data we see, is in live entertainment. If you look at the data from Millennials and Gen Z, there seems to be a large appetite and willingness to spend a great amount of money on live entertainment. We continue to spend time understanding, is there an opportunity for our capital in those type of infrastructure developments? Tony, I'll hit on those and see what else you got.

Speaker #8: And the other area we're spending time with because we really like the data we see is in live entertainment. If you look at the data from millennials and Gen Z, there seems to be a large appetite and willingness to spend a great amount of money on live entertainment.

Speaker #8: So we continue to spend time understanding is there an opportunity for our capital in those type of infrastructure developments. So Tony, I'll hit on those.

Speaker #8: And see what else you got.

Speaker #11: Okay. Thanks for that. My only other one, maybe for David, just I think one of the key loans has an initial maturity that's perhaps next month if I recall.

Anthony Paolone: Okay, thanks for that. My only other one, maybe for David, just I think one of the Cain loans has an initial maturity that's perhaps next month, if I recall. Like, what's the likelihood of getting paid back on that? Does that just get extended out?

Speaker #11: What's the likelihood of getting paid back on that or does that just get extended out?

Speaker #10: Yeah. Tony, you're right. There's an initial maturity next March or this March, sorry, next month. The likelihood is it gets rolled unlikely it gets repaid but gets rolled into a broader construction syndicate that the game team is working on and timing of that is TBD.

Gabriel Wasserman: Yeah, Tony, you're right. There's an initial maturity next March or this March, sorry, next month. The likelihood is it gets unlikely gets repaid, but gets rolled into a broader construction syndicate that the Cain team is working on, and timing of that is TBD. It's hard to predict. It's a big construction loan, but it's something they're very focused on and ensuring that they get that done in a timely manner.

David Kieske: Yeah, Tony, you're right. There's an initial maturity next March or this March, sorry, next month. The likelihood is it gets unlikely gets repaid, but gets rolled into a broader construction syndicate that the Cain team is working on, and timing of that is TBD. It's hard to predict. It's a big construction loan, but it's something they're very focused on and ensuring that they get that done in a timely manner.

Speaker #10: It's hard to predict it's a big construction loan. But it's something they're very focused on and ensuring that they get that done in a timely manner.

Speaker #12: Okay, thank you. The next question comes from David Katz at Jefferies. David, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Anthony Paolone: Okay, thank you.

Operator: The next question comes from David Katz at Jefferies. David, please go ahead. Your line is open.

David Katz: Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. John, I was hoping to just go back to the sports opportunity, because we, you know, we have been talking about it for a while, and I understand the answer, you know, about patience and persistence. Have you know, talked about any, you know, TAM or sizing that opportunity, just a little something more that we can, you know, chew on while we're waiting?

Speaker #13: Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. John, I wanted to—I was hoping to just go back to the sports opportunity because we have been talking about it for a while.

Speaker #13: And I understand the answer. About patience and persistence. Have you talked about any TAM or sizing that opportunity just a little something more that we can chew on while we're waiting?

John Payne: We don't have an exact number. I'll let Dave weigh in a little bit. What I would tell you, David, is that we have approached 50, 60, 70 universities to date. There is clearly a need for capital to build sports infrastructure. Because we've not announced a deal yet, we're trying to see how our capital can work in that environment. What I do know is there's a large TAM, and that's just in universities. We're not even talking about professional sports teams, mixed-use facilities around new arenas, new stadiums as well. David, I can't give you an exact number, but what I do know when I meet with these groups is that there is a need for capital, and there are projects that are on the board.

Speaker #8: We don't have an exact number. I'll let Gabe weigh in a little bit. What I would tell you David is that we have approached 50, 60, 70 universities to date.

Speaker #8: There is clearly a need for capital to build sports infrastructure. And because we've not announced a deal yet, we're trying to see how our capital can work in that environment.

Speaker #8: So what I do know is there's a large TAM. And that's just in universities, we're not even talking about professional sports teams, mixed-use facilities around new arenas, new stadiums as well.

Speaker #8: So David, I can't give you an exact number. But what I do know when I meet with these groups is that there is a need for capital and there are projects there on the board.

Speaker #8: Now, how they ultimately get financed is something that we continue to be as I mentioned, being patient. Discussion about how our capital can work.

John Payne: Now, how they ultimately get financed, is something that we continue to be, as I mentioned, being patient, discussion about how our capital can work. Gabe, anything else you'd add to answer David's question?

Speaker #8: Gabe, anything else you'd add to answer David's question?

Speaker #10: Yeah. I think just to reiterate, everyone we've talked about really has almost like a nine-figure need for athletic infrastructure on campus. Timeline is shorter for some and more immediate.

Jeremy Waxman: Yeah, I think just to reiterate, everyone we've talked about really has a, almost like a nine-figure need for athletic infrastructure on campus. Timeline is shorter for some and more immediate. Others, it's part of a long-term plan. You know, hopefully, our capital can be a good fit and can help with their, you know, future development, goals, and opportunities.

Speaker #10: Others, it's part of a long-term plan. And hopefully, our capital can be a good fit and can help with their future development goals and opportunities.

Speaker #13: Perfect. And then just to follow that up, when we look at John noting some of your commentary about live entertainment venues which is certainly relevant in our coverage, as well as the sports opportunity that's a little bit new, how can we think about the duration or durability of that real estate in comparison to your initial core which was casinos?

David Katz: Perfect. Then just to follow that up, when we look at, you know, John, noting some of your commentary about live entertainment venues, which is certainly relevant in our coverage, you know, as well as the sports opportunity, that's a little bit new. How can we kind of think about the duration or durability of that real estate in comparison, you know, to your initial core, which was, you know, casinos? I know we've talked about we know what the Strip, you know, is essentially going to be in 20, 30 years. How do we feel about that in those other types of real estate venues?

Speaker #13: I know we've talked about we know what the strip is essentially going to be in 20, 30 years. How do we feel about that in those other types of real estate

John Payne: Hey, Gabe, you want to take that since you've been leading this charge?

Speaker #8: Gabe, you want to take that since you've been leading this charge?

Speaker #10: Yeah, I think David, as I'm sure you're seeing in your meetings, a lot of these sports-anchored mixed entertainment districts are popping up all over the country.

Jeremy Waxman: Yeah, I think, David, as I'm sure you're seeing in your meetings, a lot of these sports-anchored, mixed entertainment districts are popping up all over the country, and they're trying to get some live entertainment to anchor them and to drive visitation, which really activates the site and increases the value of the surrounding real estate. I think if you talk to any operators that would operate these venues, they see them as a 25-year plus investment, you know, 25 to 50-year horizon, which really aligns really well with our investment horizon and looking at these as permanent capital investments. We see these as really kind of core infrastructure that are part of the development and is a really good fit for our capital and our long-term outlook.

Gabriel Wasserman: Yeah, I think, David, as I'm sure you're seeing in your meetings, a lot of these sports-anchored, mixed entertainment districts are popping up all over the country, and they're trying to get some live entertainment to anchor them and to drive visitation, which really activates the site and increases the value of the surrounding real estate. I think if you talk to any operators that would operate these venues, they see them as a 25-year plus investment, you know, 25 to 50-year horizon, which really aligns really well with our investment horizon and looking at these as permanent capital investments. We see these as really kind of core infrastructure that are part of the development and is a really good fit for our capital and our long-term outlook.

Speaker #10: And they're trying to get some live entertainment to anchor them and to drive visitation, which really activates the site and increases the value of the surrounding real estate.

Speaker #10: I think if you talk to any operators that would operate these venues, they see them as a 25-year-plus investment, 25- to 50-year horizon. Which really aligns really well with our investment horizon and looking at these as permanent capital investments.

Speaker #10: So we see these as really kind of core infrastructure that are part of the development and is a really good fit for our capital and our long-term outlook.

Speaker #8: But yeah. Great answer, Gabe.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, great answer, Gabe.

David Katz: Sorry, please.

Speaker #13: Sorry. Please.

Speaker #8: Yeah. David Katz, I'm really glad you asked that question because it's not only timely, it's also a perpetual question. And you've probably heard David Katz, the kind of acronym of the week, HALO, H-A-L-O, which is to say in the last couple of weeks, as software stocks have self-immolated, suddenly there's a focus on heavy assets, low obsolescence, HALO.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah. David Katz, I'm really glad you asked that question because it's not only timely, it's also a perpetual question. You know, you've probably heard, David Katz, the kind of acronym of the week, HALO, H-A-L-O, which is to say in the last couple of weeks, as software stocks have self-immolated, suddenly there's a focus on heavy assets, low obsolescence, HALO. Yet one thing we can never be smug about is obsolescence risk, because it is the key value destruction risk in every category of real estate. It is something we very much focus on, category by category, location by location, use by use.

Speaker #8: And yet one thing we can never be smug about is obsolescence risk. Because it is the key value destruction risk in every category of real estate.

Speaker #8: So it is something we very much focus on, category by category, location by location, use by use. And I think Gabe answered well how we would look for instance at sport assets and their likely both useful life but moreover their relevant life but certainly as we look across experiential categories, that is probably at least for me the number one risk factor which is to say how relevant will this real estate be 20 or 30 years from now?

Ed Pitoniak: I think Gabe answered well, how we would look, for instance, at sport assets and their likely both useful life, but moreover, their relevant life. Certainly, as we look across experiential categories, that is probably, at least for me, the number one risk factor, which is to say: How relevant will this real estate be 20 or 30 years from now?

David Katz: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Speaker #13: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Speaker #8: John, I don't know if you wanted to add something more.

Ed Pitoniak: John, I don't know if you wanted to add something more?

Speaker #13: Nope. You got it, Ed.

John Payne: Nope, you got it, Ed.

Speaker #12: The next question comes from Wes Goloday from BED. Wes, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Operator: The next question comes from Wes Golladay from Baird. Wes, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #14: Hey, yeah. Good morning, everyone. I just have a question for you on the cost of capital. Your 10-K highlighted that sometimes it falls out of favor.

Wes Golladay: Hey, yeah, good morning, everyone. I just got a question for you on the cost of capital. Your 10-K highlighted it. Sometimes it falls out of favor. I'm just curious if you're looking at different ways to diversify your equity source, whether it's joint ventures, maybe even start a fund business at some point. Is that becoming a bigger priority?

Speaker #14: And I'm just curious if you're looking at different ways to diversify your equity source, whether it's joint ventures, maybe even start a fund business at some point.

Speaker #14: But is that becoming a bigger priority?

Speaker #8: David and Samantha, you want to talk about that?

Ed Pitoniak: David and Samantha, you want to talk about that?

Speaker #10: Yeah, Wes, that's a good question. And we have the benefit of those that have come before us. Obviously, Prologis has a very robust and high-quality fund business.

Gabriel Wasserman: Yeah, Wes, it's a good question. We... you know, we have the benefit of those that have come before us. Obviously, Prologis has a very robust, and high-quality fund business. We're, you know, watching and seeing what Realty Income does with their fund business. Welltower is diversified, and it's something, you know, more broadly we think about: What is the evolution of the REIT market, and is it a, you know, becoming a more of an asset management market or more of an asset management model? Excuse me. Obviously, fund flows over the last 5, 10, 15 years have been very anemic with- in the REIT world. It's, it's something that we're watching and learning and thinking about.

Gabriel Wasserman: Yeah, Wes, it's a good question. You know, we have the benefit of those that have come before us. Obviously, Prologis has a very robust, and high-quality fund business. We're, you know, watching and seeing what Realty Income does with their fund business. Welltower is diversified, and it's something, you know, more broadly we think about: What is the evolution of the REIT market, and is it a, you know, becoming a more of an asset management market or more of an asset management model? Excuse me. Obviously, fund flows over the last 5, 10, 15 years have been very anemic with- in the REIT world. It's, it's something that we're watching and learning and thinking about.

Speaker #10: We're watching and seeing what realty income does with their fund business. WellTower has diversified. And it's something more broadly we think about. What is the evolution of the REIT market?

Speaker #10: And is it a more becoming more of an asset management market or more of an asset management model? Excuse me because obviously, fund flows over the last 5, 10, 15 years have been very, very anemic within the REIT world.

Speaker #10: So it's something that we're watching and learning and thinking about. There's nothing imminent on the horizon. But it's like any good stewards of capital we want to make sure that we're forward-thinking and putting the best practices forward.

Gabriel Wasserman: There's nothing imminent on the horizon, but it's like any good stewards of capital, we want to make sure that we're forward-thinking and putting the best practices forward.

Jeremy Waxman: David said it well.

Speaker #8: David said a lot. My job is to make sure we can basically structure anything we need to structure to accomplish our objectives.

Jeremy Waxman: David said it well.

Wes Golladay: Thanks for the time.

Jeremy Waxman: My job is to make sure we can basically structure anything we need to structure to accomplish our objectives.

Wes Golladay: Thank you.

Speaker #13: Thank you.

Wes Golladay: Thank you.

Speaker #12: The next question comes from John Decree from CBRE. John, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Operator: The next question comes from John DeCree from CBRE. John, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #6: Hi. Good morning, everyone.

John DeCree: Hi, good morning, everyone.

Ed Pitoniak: Good morning, John.

Speaker #8: Morning, John.

John DeCree: I know we've talked about New York casinos in prior calls. You know, with 3 licenses awarded, you know, Ed, John, Dave, whoever wants to take this, how are you thinking about New York development opportunities and your appetite to get involved in financing in whole or part? Can you kind of walk us through your view on the New York City development opportunity right now?

Speaker #6: I know we've talked about New York casinos in prior calls. But with three licenses awarded, Ed, John, Dave, whoever wants to take this, how are you thinking about New York development opportunities and your appetite to get involved in financing in whole or in part?

Speaker #6: Can you kind of walk us through your view on the New York City development opportunity right now?

Speaker #8: John and David?

Ed Pitoniak: John and David?

Speaker #13: I'll start and then David can jump in. John, good to talk to you this morning. Obviously, it's a very large development that are going to happen with these licenses.

John Payne: I'll start, and then David can jump in. John, good to talk to you this morning. Obviously, it's a very large developments that are gonna happen with these licenses. We do already have a partnership, as you know, with the Hard Rock organization that are rebuilding The Mirage in Las Vegas. We also have a partnership with them in Cincinnati. We're watching to see where there are opportunities for us to be part of a capital stack, so to speak, in New York. It's still a wait and see, still seeing what's going on and where our capital could be productive and the projections of these businesses as well, we're getting a better handle on. David?

John Payne: I'll start, and then David can jump in. John, good to talk to you this morning. Obviously, it's a very large developments that are going to happen with these licenses. We do already have a partnership, as you know, with the Hard Rock organization that are rebuilding The Mirage in Las Vegas. We also have a partnership with them in Cincinnati. We're watching to see where there are opportunities for us to be part of a capital stack, so to speak, in New York. It's still a wait and see, still seeing what's going on and where our capital could be productive and the projections of these businesses as well, we're getting a better handle on. David?

Speaker #13: We do already have a partnership, as you know, with the Hard Rock organization that are rebuilding The Mirage in Las Vegas. We also have a partnership with them in Cincinnati.

Speaker #13: So we're watching to see where their opportunities for us to be part of a capital stack, so to speak, in New York. So it's still a wait and see, still seeing what's going on and where our capital could be productive.

Speaker #13: And the projections of these businesses as well. We're getting a better handle on. David?

Speaker #10: Hey, you covered it well, John. Obviously, you've got two ground-up developments that will be farther out. And obviously, Resorts World has a bit of a head start given the existing facilities.

Gabriel Wasserman: I think you covered it well, John. Obviously, you've got two ground up developments that will be farther out, and obviously, Resorts World has a bit of a head start given the existing facilities. You know, John DeCree timing, amount, and magnitude and what partner is a bit TBD, so at this point.

David Kieske: I think you covered it well, John. Obviously, you've got two ground up developments that will be farther out, and obviously, Resorts World has a bit of a head start given the existing facilities. You know, John DeCree timing, amount, and magnitude and what partner is a bit TBD, so at this point.

Speaker #10: So John Decree, timing and amount and magnitude and what partner is a bit TBD still at this point.

Speaker #12: Fair. Thanks, David, John. Appreciate it. John, appreciate that. Ed, I wanted to circle back to your prepared remarks as it relates to the Venetian and the case study that you've referenced.

John DeCree: Yeah. Thanks, David. John, appreciate that. Ed, I wanted to circle back to your prepared remarks as it relates to The Venetian, and the case study that you've referenced and the success that, you know, Pat had there and the development capital. I'm curious to get your views on, you know, opportunities where that could be replicated, where there's, you know, large assets, great assets in great locations, casino assets that, you know, with the right focus and capital, could, you know, earn significantly more. I mean, you know, an asset like The STRAT that's coming into your portfolio, that it's a fantastic asset that, you know, could maybe have a lot more potential. You know, it was such a unique opportunity for The Venetian, you know, can you see that being replicated anywhere?

Speaker #12: And the success that Pat had there and the development capital. And curious to get your views on opportunities where that could be replicated, where there's large assets, great assets in great locations, casino assets that with the right focus and capital could earn significantly more and meet an asset like the Strat that's coming into the portfolio that's a fantastic asset that could maybe have a lot more potential.

Speaker #12: So it was such a unique opportunity for the Venetian. But can you see that being replicated anywhere?

Speaker #8: Yeah. John, very much so. And obviously, it is the fundamental approach that Patrick and the Venetian team have taken is an approach that I believe you fundamentally see across the street at the WIN.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, John, very much so. Obviously, it is, you know, it is this. The fundamental approach that Patrick and The Venetian team have taken is an approach that I believe you fundamentally see across the street at the Wynn. You see it in many other assets up and down the Strip. If I was gonna distill what I think is essential to increasing the vitality and relevance of an asset, it's that the management team has really strong, really broad, really deep cultural insights into how people want to experience the world, and how much of those consumer desires they can capitalize on in terms of how they program the asset.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, John, very much so. Obviously, it is, you know, it is this. The fundamental approach that Patrick and The Venetian team have taken is an approach that I believe you fundamentally see across the street at the Wynn. You see it in many other assets up and down the Strip. If I was going to distill what I think is essential to increasing the vitality and relevance of an asset, it's that the management team has really strong, really broad, really deep cultural insights into how people want to experience the world, and how much of those consumer desires they can capitalize on in terms of how they program the asset.

Speaker #8: You see it in many other assets up and down the Strip. And if I was going to distill what I think is essential to increasing the vitality and relevance of an asset, it's that the management team has really strong, really broad, really deep cultural insights into how people want to experience the world, and how much of those consumer desires they can capitalize on in terms of how they program the asset.

Speaker #8: Because at the Venetian, as at so many other places, what you're seeing is acting on really strong cultural insights on how people want to be entertained.

Ed Pitoniak: Because at The Venetian, as at so many other places, what you're seeing is, you know, acting on really strong cultural insights on how people want to be entertained, how people want to dine, how people want to socially gather, how people want to shop, how people want to pursue wellness. That, I think, is the key ingredient. You know, an old friend of ours, and David, I don't know if John Arabia coined the term relevant real estate, but at any rate, well, we stole it from him. That's what we fundamentally believe in, John, is making the real estate as relevant as it can possibly be to consumer desires.

Speaker #8: How people want to dine. How people want to socially gather. How people want to shop. How people want to pursue wellness. And that, I think, is the key ingredient.

Speaker #8: An old friend of ours and David—I don't know if John Arabia coined the term 'relevant real estate,' but at any rate, we stole it from him.

Speaker #8: And that's what we fundamentally believe in, John: making the real estate as relevant as it can possibly be to consumer desires. And I think that is an opportunity that can be realized on the Las Vegas Strip.

Ed Pitoniak: I think that is an opportunity that can be realized on the Las Vegas Strip, it can be realized in regional assets, and it can be realized in so many different experiential categories. Again, it really takes having a really profound feel for where not only the culture is, but where it can or should go.

Speaker #8: It can be realized in regional assets. And it can be realized in so many different experience categories. And again, it really takes having a really profound feel for where not only the culture is, but where it can or should go.

Speaker #12: Thanks, Ed. That's great color. Really appreciate it.

John DeCree: Thanks, Ed. That's a great color. I really appreciate it.

John Payne: John, before you drop off, I'll just say, if Patrick was on the phone, I don't think he'd say they're done at The Venetian. I think they still think that, yes, they've grown, but they are a management team that continues to look for opportunities to grow the business in a variety of ways there.

Speaker #13: And John, before you drop off, I'll just say if Patrick was on the phone, I don't think he'd say they're done at the Venetian.

Speaker #13: I think they still think that, yes, they've grown. But they are a management team that continues to look for opportunities to grow the business in a variety of ways there.

Speaker #12: Good point, John. I agree. The next question comes from Smeets Rose from Citi. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Gabriel Wasserman: Good point, John. I agree.

Operator: The next question comes from Smedes Rose from Citi. Your line is now open, please go ahead.

Speaker #8: Hi, Smeets.

Ed Pitoniak: Hi, Smeeds.

Speaker #13: Hi. Thanks. I know you've—hi. I know you've covered a lot of ground here, but I wanted to circle back on something, maybe just for a little bit of clarification.

Smedes Rose: Thanks. I know you've covered a lot of ground here, but I just wanted to circle back on something, maybe just a little, a bit of a clarification. The combination of the two PENN leases, you mentioned there's no change in rent this year to VICI. If I, maybe I'm not reading this right, but it looks like the escalators going forward were reduced, or is the rent going forward the same as well?

Speaker #13: The combination of the two pan-leases, you mentioned there's no change in rent this year to Vichy. But if I maybe I'm not reading this right.

Speaker #13: But it looks like the escalators going forward were reduced. Or is that or is the rent going forward the same as well?

Ed Pitoniak: John and David?

Speaker #8: John, maybe we simplified the yeah. Smeets, we simplified the escalation structure there if you remember. There was a percentage rate in these leases where you removed the volatility by eliminating the percentage rent.

John Payne: Yeah, Smedes, we simplified the escalation structure there. If you remember, there was a percentage rent there in these leases. We removed the volatility by eliminating the percentage rent. I think that's important to see. David, do you want to jump in as well?

Speaker #8: I think that's important to see. David, do you want to jump in as well?

Speaker #10: No, I mean, creating a master lease with a much simpler structure going forward—the aggregate rent does not change. There is a change in the potential escalation going forward.

Gabriel Wasserman: No, I mean, you're creating a master lease with a much simpler structure going forward. The aggregate rent does not change. There is a change in the potential escalation going forward, but it's a much cleaner, simpler structure going forward.

David Kieske: No, I mean, you're creating a master lease with a much simpler structure going forward. The aggregate rent does not change. There is a change in the potential escalation going forward, but it's a much cleaner, simpler structure going forward.

Speaker #10: But it's a much cleaner, simpler structure going forward.

Speaker #13: Going to fix Smeets' lease.

John Payne: Okay. The other thing.

Speaker #12: And then the other thing.

Speaker #13: Variable.

Chad Beynon: Variable.

John Payne: Yeah. No, that makes sense. I just, so less upside, but, I guess less downside too. I wanted to ask you on the loan book, you know, I mean, just in general, I mean, I know you can't name names, but, I mean, is there anything kind of on your watchlist or things that you're concerned about coverage going forward? You know, given that you had one that obviously moved to non-accrual. I realize it's small, but these are the kinds of things that, you know, people care about, and I'm just sort of wondering if you can give any color on that.

Speaker #12: Yeah. No. That makes sense. I just so less upside. But I guess less downside too. I wanted to ask you, on the loan book, are there I mean, just in general, I mean, I know you can't name names.

Speaker #12: But I mean, is there anything kind of on your watch list or things that you're concerned about coverage going forward given that you had one that obviously moved to non-accrual?

Speaker #12: I realize it's small, but these are the kinds of things that people care about. And I'm just sort of wondering if you can give any color on that.

Speaker #8: Sure. Gabe, you want to talk about our approach?

Ed Pitoniak: Sure. Gabe, you want to talk about our approach?

Speaker #10: Yeah, thank you. So, all the other loans in our portfolio are performing and are current on their obligations. But we have an active asset management approach, where we review every single lease and loan investment in our portfolio on a quarterly basis.

Jeremy Waxman: Thank you. All the other loans in our portfolio are performing and are current on their obligations. We have an active asset management approach, where we review every single lease and loan investment in our portfolio on a quarterly basis. As John Payne has been emphasizing, you know, have really great insight into all of our partners, all of our tenants, all of our borrowers, and their underlying financial performance and business plans. Continue to stay close to them and understand, you know, future forward-looking performance.

Gabriel Wasserman: Thank you. All the other loans in our portfolio are performing and are current on their obligations. We have an active asset management approach, where we review every single lease and loan investment in our portfolio on a quarterly basis. As John Payne has been emphasizing, you know, have really great insight into all of our partners, all of our tenants, all of our borrowers, and their underlying financial performance and business plans. Continue to stay close to them and understand, you know, future forward-looking performance.

Speaker #10: So, as John Payne has been emphasizing, I'll have really great insight into all of our partners, all of our tenants, all of our borrowers, and their underlying financial performance and business plan.

Speaker #10: So continue to stay close to them and understand future forward-looking performance.

Speaker #12: All right. Thank you.

John Payne: All right. Thank you.

Speaker #8: And I'm just going to add that Gabe came to us from the Blackstone Mortgage REIT. So Gabe has done this before. Have you not, Gabe?

Ed Pitoniak: I'm just going to add, that Gabe came to us from the Blackstone Mortgage Trust. Gabe has done this before. Have you not, Gabe?

Speaker #10: Yeah.

Jeremy Waxman: Yeah.

Gabriel Wasserman: Yeah.

Speaker #12: The next question comes from Rich Hightower at Barclays. Rich, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Operator: The next question comes from Rich Hightower at Barclays. Rich, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #13: Hey, good morning, guys. I know we've covered quite a lot of ground this morning, but I think I want to piggyback off of—I think it was Wes Goliday's question earlier.

Rich Hightower: Good morning, guys. I know we've covered quite a lot of ground this morning. I think I want to piggyback off of, I think it was Wes Golladay's question earlier, and also referring to, Ed, you said VICI has sort of a target total return annually of 8% to 10%. If I look at, you know, current dividend yield plus AFFO growth as embedded in guidance, you're essentially already there without really investing another dollar in anything that hasn't been announced. I guess in that context, you know, where do share repurchases, you know, fit into the capital allocation framework? I know that's unusual for a REIT, sometimes circumstances are unusual.

Speaker #13: And also referring to, Ed, you said Vichy has sort of a target total return annually of 8 to 10 percent. And if I look at current dividend yield plus AFFO growth as embedded in guidance, you're essentially already there.

Speaker #13: Without really investing another dollar in anything that hasn't been announced. And so I guess in that context, where do share repurchases fit into the capital allocation framework?

Speaker #13: I know that's unusual for a REIT, but sometimes circumstances are unusual.

Speaker #8: Yeah. Well, Samantha would justifiably smack me if I said we would never do share buybacks, so I'm not going to say we would never do share buybacks.

Ed Pitoniak: Well, I, Samantha, would justifiably smack me if I said we would never do share buybacks. I'm not going to say we would never do share buybacks, but I would consider them highly unlikely, Rich, given what we fundamentally believe is the better use of our cash, retained cash resources, and any other incremental capital that we were able to source to invest in experiential assets that we think will give our investors better long-term returns than would the repurchase of shares. I mean, you're right. The math, as it is, certainly adds up to what should be a compelling total return.

Speaker #8: But I would consider them highly unlikely, Rich. Given what we fundamentally believe is the better use of our cash, retained cash resources, and any other incremental capital that we were able to source to invest in experience assets that we think will give our investors better long-term returns than would the repurchase of shares.

Speaker #8: I mean, you're right. The math as it is, certainly adds up to what should be a compelling total return. If we've learned anything, though, Rich, in the last few years - and you've lived this right alongside us - you never want to make assumptions about where multiples are going to go in any given cycle and what that is going to mean for the capitalization of earnings growth or, frankly, the capitalization of the base earnings.

Ed Pitoniak: If we've learned anything, though, Rich, in the last few years, and you've lived this right alongside us, you never want to make assumptions about where multiples are going to go in any given cycle and what that is going to mean for the capitalization of earnings growth, or frankly, the capitalization of base earnings. You know, as we look out over the course of this year, you know, I think you've heard from John and the team, you know, the energy that they are bringing to growth activities. I would reiterate that while we do not obviously give investment guidance, we have a track record of working hard to produce growth within a given year, both for the year and for the following year.

Speaker #8: But as we look out over the course of this year, I think you've heard from John and the team the energy that they are bringing to growth activities.

Speaker #8: And I would reiterate that, while we do not, obviously, give investment guidance, we have a track record of working hard to produce growth within a given year—both for the year and for the following year.

Ed Pitoniak: You know, we start the year with the guidance that we do. I would also encourage everybody to look at our track record over our history of where we end up in relation to where we started. Where do we end up with year-end earnings in relation to where we started at the beginning of the year with our initial guidance? I think you'll see a pretty strong track record of the team working hard to produce results in the year for the year.

Speaker #8: And so we start the year with the guidance that we do. But I would also encourage everybody to look at our track record over our history of where we end up in relation to where we started.

Speaker #8: In other words, where do we end up with year-end earnings in relation to where we started at the beginning of the year with our initial guidance?

Speaker #8: And I think you'll see a pretty strong track record of the team working hard to produce results in the year for the year.

Speaker #13: Okay. Thank you, Ed.

Rich Hightower: Okay. Thank you, Ed.

Speaker #8: Thanks, Rich.

Ed Pitoniak: Thanks, Rich.

Speaker #12: I'll throw in a question today. It comes from Chad Bannon from Macquarie. Chad, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Operator: Our final question today comes from Chad Beynon from Macquarie. Chad, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #11: Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just one for me. Just wanted to go back to the golden transaction. I know you guys hit on the cap rate and the opportunities in that region.

Chad Beynon: Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just one for me. Just wanted to go back to the Golden transaction. I know you guys hit on the cap rate and the opportunities in that region. Just want to focus on the coverage of 1.9. Can you talk about kind of how you thought about, you know, that level at this time in the cycle, maybe versus prior negotiations? More importantly, does this, you know, portend for future negotiations in terms of how you're thinking about the coverage, or is every deal, you know, a different snowflake, so to speak? Thanks.

Speaker #11: Just wanted to focus on the coverage of 1.9. Can you talk about kind of how you thought about that level at this time and the cycle, maybe versus prior negotiations?

Speaker #11: And then more importantly, does this portend for future negotiations in terms of how you’re thinking about the coverage? Or is every deal a different snowflake, so to speak?

Speaker #11: Thanks.

Speaker #8: John?

Ed Pitoniak: John?

Speaker #13: Yeah, I'll take the last part of your question, which is every deal we have is just so different, whether it's a portfolio of assets or whether it's a single asset.

John Payne: Yeah. I'll take the last part of your question, which is every deal we have is just so different, whether it's a portfolio of assets, whether it's a single asset. As it pertains to your question about coverage, every time we look at something, we go through what is the appropriate coverage to start with. Regarding Golden, it's a belief, you know, these deals, they're real estate deals, but we're really, as I said, in my opinion, when I was underwriting the management team and understanding their plans for the assets, and where the markets are and how these assets can perform.

Speaker #13: So as it pertains to your question about coverage, every time we look at something, we go through what is the appropriate coverage to start with.

Speaker #13: Regarding Golden, it's a belief. These deals—they're real estate deals. But we're really, as I said in my opening remarks, underwriting the management team.

Speaker #13: And understanding their plans for the assets, and where the markets are, and how these assets can perform. So, as we put it all together and we're looking at a portfolio deal of the Golden assets, our team and our investment committee took a look and believed that that was the appropriate way to start at that coverage.

John Payne: As we put it all together and we're looking at a portfolio deal of the Golden assets, our team and our investment committee took a look and believed that that was the appropriate way to start at that coverage. We believe that the operating team will be successful running the business based on their future plans.

Speaker #13: And we believe that the operating team will be successful running the business based on their future plans.

Speaker #11: Great. Thank you very much.

Operator: Great. Thank you very much.

Chad Beynon: Great. Thank you very much.

Speaker #8: Thanks, Chad.

Ed Pitoniak: Thanks, Chad.

Operator: We'll now hand the call back to Ed for any closing comments.

Speaker #12: Oh, no. Hi, Nicole. Back to Ed for any closing comments.

Operator: We'll now hand the call back to Ed for any closing comments.

Speaker #8: Yeah, Adam, thank you. I will just close out by thanking everybody for dialing in today at the end of what I know has been, for all of you—both on the sell and buy sides—a very long earnings season.

Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, Adam, thank you. I will just close out by thanking everybody for dialing in today at the end of what I know has been for all of you, both on the sell and buy side, a very long earnings season. We look forward to seeing many of you at the conferences over the next few weeks, and then, of course, again, in about two months for our Q1 call. Adam, that will conclude the call.

Speaker #8: We look forward to seeing many of you at the conferences over the next few weeks. And then, of course, again in about two months for our Q1 call.

Speaker #8: And Adam, that will conclude the call.

Operator: This does indeed conclude today's call. Thank you all very much for your attendance. You may now disconnect your lines.

Q4 2025 VICI Properties Inc Earnings Call

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