Q4 2025 Klarna Group PLC Earnings Call

February 19, 2026

Speaker #1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Klarna's fourth quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Filippa Bolts, Head of Communications at Klarna, and I'm joined today by Sebastian Siemiatkowski and Niclas Neglen.

Filippa Bolz: Hello everyone, and welcome to Klarna's Q4 2025 earnings call. My name is Filippa Bolz, Head of Communications at Klarna, and I'm joined today by Sebastian Siemiatkowski and Niclas Neglén. Our Q4 results were released at around 7:30AM Eastern Time, and they are available on our investor relations website. During this call, we will discuss our business outlook and make forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectations and assumptions as of today. Actual results may differ materially due to various risks and uncertainties, including those described in our most recent filings with the SEC. During this call, we will present both IFRS and non-IFRS financial measures. A reconciliation of non-IFRS to IFRS measures is included in today's earnings press release, which is distributed and available to the public through our investor relations website, as well as filed with the SEC.

Speaker #1: Our Q4 results were released at around 7:30 a.m. Eastern Time, and they are available on our investor relations website. During this call, we will discuss our business outlook and make forward-looking statements.

Speaker #1: These statements are based on our current expectations and assumptions as of today. Actual results may differ materially due to various risks and uncertainties, including those described in our most recent filings with the SEC.

Speaker #1: During this call, we will present both IFRS and non-IFRS financial measures. A reconciliation of non-IFRS to IFRS measures is included in today's earnings press release, which is distributed and available to the public through our investor relations website as well as filed with the SEC.

Speaker #1: Please note, unless otherwise stated, all comparisons in this call will be against our results for the comparable period in 2024. During the Q&A portion of today's call, please limit yourself to one question.

Filippa Bolz: Please note, unless otherwise stated, all comparisons in this call will be against our results for the comparable period in 2024. During the Q&A portion of today's call, please limit yourself to one question. To join the queue, participants should dial pound key five on their telephone keypad. Before we move to Q&A, we will begin with a short presentation. Sebastian, please go ahead.

Speaker #1: To join the queue, participants should dial pound key five on their telephone keypad. Before we move to Q&A, we will begin with a short presentation.

Speaker #1: Sebastian, please go ahead.

Speaker #2: Thank you for joining Klarna's Q4 earnings call. Klarna is accelerating its growth of our banking relationships and our revenue per customer. Millions of consumers are adopting more of our services, the Klarna card, Klarna's deposit accounts, Klarna's fair financing products, and of course, our well-known Buy Now Pay Later services.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Thank you for joining Klarna's Q4 earnings call. Klarna is accelerating its growth of our banking relationships and our revenue per customer. Millions of consumers are adopting more of our services, the Klarna Card, Klarna's deposit accounts, Klarna's third financing products, and of course, our well-known buy now, pay later services. Now, this is exactly what we had planned for and wanted to achieve, and in Q4 of 2025, the adoption of these products accelerated beyond our expectations. As we scale this business, delivering on profitability is a key priority. In Q4, we delivered. Active consumers reached 180 million, up 28% year-over-year. Merchants grew to 966,000, up 42% year-over-year.

Speaker #2: Now, this is exactly what we had planned for and wanted to achieve, and in Q4 2025, the adoption of these products accelerated beyond our expectations.

Speaker #2: As we scale this business, delivering on profitability is a key priority. In Q4, we delivered. Active consumers reached 180 million, up 28% year over year.

Speaker #2: Merchants grew to 966,000, up 42% year over year. GMV came in at 38.7 billion, above the top end of our guidance, and revenue grew 38% to over $1 billion also beating guidance.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: GMV came in at $38.7 billion, above the top end of our guidance, and revenue grew 38% to over $1 billion, also beating guidance. Now, let's put these numbers in perspective. We are a bank with an exceptional network that is growing at 38% revenue year-over-year. In 2025, we did over $127 billion worth of volume across 26 markets and across 3 continents, and we're growing exceptionally well on every top-line metric, cementing our US as well as our global leadership position. Transaction margin dollars before provisions grew 31% to $622 million, an acceleration of 107 versus prior quarter, and after provisions, transaction margin dollar was $372 million, up 17% year-over-year and up 28% sequentially from Q3.

Speaker #2: Now, let's put these numbers in perspective. We are a bank with an exceptional network that is growing at 38% revenue year over year. In '25, we did over $127 billion worth of volume across 26 markets, and across three continents.

Speaker #2: And we're growing exceptionally well on every top-line metric, cementing our US as well as our global leadership position. Transaction margin dollars before provisions grew 31% to $622 million, an acceleration of 107 versus prior quarter, and after provisions, transaction margin dollar was 372 million, up 17% year over year and up 28% sequentially from Q3.

Speaker #2: Now, the fact that transaction margin accelerated quarter over quarter points to the compounding nature of our model as more of our cohorts mature revenue and its compounding at a faster rate.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Now, the fact that transaction margin accelerated quarter-over-quarter points to the compounding nature of our model, as more of our cohorts mature revenue, and it's compounding at a faster rate. Now, I want to be direct and transparent. This quarter's transaction margin dollar result did not land where we guided. We take that seriously. The acceleration in lending growth is the primary driver of that outcome. Now, let's look at an illustrative example of that to understand the impact I'm speaking about. In this example, we have about $1 billion of loans originated. The lifetime profit of these loans, you can see on the left-hand side, is $100 million in revenue, while your provision would be about 40, and you would have other costs of 25, resulting in a net profit of $35 million.

Speaker #2: Now, I want to be direct and transparent. This quarter's transaction margin dollar result did not land where we guided. We take that seriously. The acceleration in lending growth is the primary driver of that outcome.

Speaker #2: Now, let's look in an illustrative example of that to understand the impact I'm speaking about. In this example, we have about $1 billion of loans originated.

Speaker #2: The lifetime profit of these loans, you can see on the left-hand side, is $100 million in revenue, while your provision would be about $40 million, and you would have other costs of $25 million, resulting in a net profit of $35 million.

Speaker #2: Now, like all banks, we recognize these loan cohorts over a period of time. In the first quarter, as you can see on the right-hand side, we would recognize a fraction of the revenue, but we would recognize all of the expected provisioning upfront.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Now, like all banks, we recognize these loan cohorts over a period of time. In the first quarter, as you can see on the right-hand side, we would recognize a fraction of the revenue, but we would recognize all of the expected provisioning upfront. This results in a first quarter transaction margin dollar drag of $25 million, as you can see on the red there. During the remaining quarters, we recognize the remaining revenue as well as the other costs, so the resulting lifetime net profit remains the same $35 million. It is simply spread over time, and we see a $60 million positive impact on the P&L for the remaining quarters. This effect in the first quarter happens even when the underlying economics are strong and credit quality is stable. This is value creation that is deferred.

Speaker #2: This results in a first-quarter transaction margin dollar drag of $25 million, as you can see on the red there. During the remaining quarters, we recognize the remaining revenue, as well as the other costs.

Speaker #2: So the resulting lifetime net profit remains the same $35 million, it is simply spread over time, and we see a $60 million positive impact on the P&L for the remaining quarters.

Speaker #2: This effect in the first quarter happens even when the underlying economics are strong and credit quality is stable. This is value creation that is deferred.

Speaker #2: For every provision we book today, we gain a future profit stream. Now, let's take a Klarna example. For 2.5 billion of US fair financing portfolio originated this quarter, Q4 25, we booked $80 million in provisions upfront, and we recognized $40 million in revenue.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: For every provision we book today, we gain a future profit stream. Now, let's take a Klarna example. For $2.5 billion of US Fair Financing portfolio originated this quarter, Q4 2025, we booked $80 million in provisions upfront, and we recognized $40 million in revenue. So yes, this quarter, that's a $40 million headwind, but there's an additional a $180 million of interest income still to come, while the cost, the expected credit losses, have been provisioned for already. Just to repeat, faster growth, faster adoption, means lower upfront transaction margins and operating profit.

Speaker #2: So yes, this quarter, that's a $40 million headwind. But there's an additional $180 million of interest income still to come while the cost, the expected credit losses, have been provisioned for already.

Speaker #2: Just to repeat, faster growth, faster adoption means lower upfront transaction margins and operating profit. So when you look at our Q4 transaction margin dollars of $372 million, this primarily reflects the fact that the adoption of our expanding set of banking services is growing faster than we expected.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: So when you look at our Q4 transaction margin dollars of $372 million, this primarily reflects the fact that the adoption of our expanding set of banking services are growing faster than we expected, including fair financing GMV, currently growing at 165% annually. At the same time, to support our accelerating growth in a capital-efficient manner, we've ramped up our loan sales, and in Q4 2025, we initiated our first fair financing forward flow with $73 million of gain on sales recognized in Q4 2025. Continuing this strategy will further accelerate our profitability improvement in 2026. Now, let me speak to exactly what that growth looks like and why we're so confident in our strategy.

Speaker #2: Including Fair Financing, GMV is currently growing at 165% annually. At the same time, to support our accelerating growth in a capital-efficient manner, we have ramped up our loan sales.

Speaker #2: And in Q4 25, we initiated our first fair financing forward flow with $73 million of gain on sales recognized in Q4 25. Continuing this strategy will further accelerate our profitability improvement in '26.

Speaker #2: Now, let me speak to exactly what that growth looks like and why we're so confident in our strategy. Our partnership strategy as described on our previous earnings call continues to compound and support our long-term strategy of being ubiquitous, everywhere, as our payments network expands its acceptance points.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Our partnership strategy, as described on our previous earnings call, continues to compound and support our long-term strategy of being ubiquitous everywhere as our payments network expands its acceptance points. Over the year, we added 285,000 merchants, up 42% year-over-year. We continued to scale our default relationship with Stripe. We began the default on rollout with Nexi through Paytrail, and we expanded Apple Pay and Google Pay into additional markets. We also launched new partnerships with Emirates, LEGO, Vinted, and StockX, while further deepening our relationship with large global merchants such as Walmart, Lufthansa, and Etsy. At the same time, we're accelerating our product ubiquity, ensuring that we have relevant payment options wherever the consumer shops. We double the amount of merchants where Fair financing is available and continue to expand our pay-in-full product to almost half of our total merchant base.

Speaker #2: Over the year, we, added 285,000 merchants, up 42% year over year. We continue to scale our default relationship with Stripe, we began the default on rollout with Nexi through Paytrail, and we expanded Apple Pay and Google Pay into additional markets.

Speaker #2: We also launched new partnerships with Emirates, Lego, Vinted, and StockX. While further deepening our relationship with large global merchants such as Walmart, Lufthansa, and Etsy.

Speaker #2: At the same time, we're accelerating our product ubiquity and ensuring that we have relevant payment options wherever the consumer shops. We doubled the amount of merchants where fair financing is available and continue to expand our paying full product to almost half of our total merchant base.

Speaker #2: The benefit of building that network, close to $1 million merchants globally, across 26 markets, online and offline, is that we've already captured the hardest thing to win, the consumer's everyday spend.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: The benefit of building that network, close to 1 million merchants globally across 26 markets, online and offline, is that we've already captured the hardest thing to win, the consumer's everyday spend, the checkout moments where trust is built, and that is the foundation, and now we're leveraging it. Once you have the everyday spending relationship, once a consumer is using Klarna 10, 15, 20 times a year at checkout, the step into a banking relationship is natural, low friction, and extraordinarily cost-effective. There is no cold start. We already know these customers, and they already trust us. And in Q4, this played out at an accelerating pace. Active card users grew to 4.2 million, up 288% year-over-year.

Speaker #2: The checkout moments are where trust is built, and that is the foundation. And now we're leveraging it. Once you have the everyday spending relationship, once the consumer is using Klarna 10, 15, 20 times a year at checkout, the step into a banking relationship is natural.

Speaker #2: Low friction. An extraordinarily cost-effective. There is no cold start. We already know these customers and they already trust us. And in Q4, this played out at an accelerating pace.

Speaker #2: Active card users grew to 4.2 million up 288% year over year. Consumer deposits reached 13 billion up 37%. And our most engaged consumers, the Klarna banking customers, reached 15.8 million, growing at 101%.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Consumer deposits reached $13 billion, up 37%, and our most engaged consumers, the Klarna banking customers, reached 15.8 million, growing at 101%. It is compounding as we build deeper relationship with our consumers. Let's deep dive into a comparison of that total consumer base versus the banking consumers that have adopted more of those banking products. Our base of 180 million Klarna consumers is growing at 28% year-over-year and transacts about 10 times a year with us. They have an average revenue per user of about $30.... But now look at what happens when that relationship expands into a deeper banking relationship. Those 15.8 million consumers transact nearly three times as often, 28.5 times a year, with an ARPU of $107.

Speaker #2: It is compounding as we build deeper relationships with our consumers. Let's deep dive into a comparison of that total consumer base versus the banking consumers that have adopted more of those banking products.

Speaker #2: Our base of 180 million Klarna consumers is growing at 28% year over year and transacts about 10 times a year with us. They have an average revenue per user of about $30.

Speaker #2: But now look at what happens when that relationship expands into a deeper banking relationship. Those 15.8 million consumers transact nearly three times as often, 28.5 times a year, with an ARPU of 107.

Speaker #2: The average deposits jump from 64 for our paying customers to 475 for our banking customers. And credit balances remain modest—compare that to any credit card bank, which would usually be at about 6,500, or 10 times as much.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: The average deposits jump from $64 for our paying customers to $475 for our banking customers. Credit balances remain modest. Compare that to any credit card bank, that would usually be at about $6,500, or 10 times as much. The charge-off rate moves from 0.6% to just 1.1%, a fraction of the 4% to 5% you would see at normal standard credit card banks. More engagement, more revenue, disciplined risk. That's the conversion we're driving, and it's why we're leaning into this growth despite the near-term provisioning drag. Now, this expansion of our banking product is built on our transaction relationship with our consumers and the knowledge we have built around risk management for the past 20 years. Our proprietary underwriting systems that we've developed underwrite every single transaction.

Speaker #2: And the charge-off rate moves from 0.6% to just 1.1%, a fraction of the 4 to 5% you would see at normal, standard credit card banks.

Speaker #2: So more engagement, more revenue, disciplined risks. That's the conversion we're driving, and it's why we're leaning into this growth despite the near-term provisioning drag.

Speaker #2: Now, this expansion of our banking product is built on our transaction relationship with our consumers. And the knowledge we have built around risk management for the past 20 years.

Speaker #2: Our proprietary underwriting systems that we've developed underwrite every single transaction. We don't issue revolving credit, and we leverage our deep understanding of our consumer spending habits as well as external data.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: We don't issue revolving credit, and we leverage our deep understanding of our consumer spending habits as well as external data. The result is consistent and stable charge-off profiles, as evidenced by the stable 3 to 4% charge-off rates for our US Fair Financing product. We are delivering all of this with a fundamentally different operating model. Leaning into technology allows Klarna to deliver a range of services with a headcount that is a fraction of the size of a traditional bank. Klarna's success is built on talent density and relentless focus on efficiency, and we believe this is a lasting competitive advantage. Now, look at this. Revenue per employee now reached $1.24 million in 2025, a 3.6x increase since 2022, and critically, we reinvested some of these savings back into our talent.

Speaker #2: The result is consistent and stable charge-off profiles, as evidenced by the stable 3% to 4% charge-off rates for our US Fair Financing product. And we are delivering all of this with a fundamentally different operating model. Leaning into technology allows Klarna to deliver a range of services with a headcount that is a fraction of the size of a traditional bank.

Speaker #2: Klarna's success is built on talent density and relentless focus on efficiency. And we believe this is a lasting competitive advantage. Now look at this revenue per employee now reached 1.24 million in '25, a 3.6 times increase since '22, and critically, we've reinvested some of these savings back into our talent.

Speaker #2: That's the operating leverage that compounds alongside the banking growth I've just described. Since 2022, we have accelerated our revenue growing 104% while at the same time managing our adjusted operating expenses effectively as it has declined by 8%.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: That's the operating leverage that compounds alongside the banking growth I've just described. Since 2022, we have accelerated our revenue, growing 104%, while at the same time managing our adjusted operating expenses effectively as it has declined by 8%. In 2026, we expect to continue to expand revenues faster than our operating costs as we focus on building the consumer bank of the future. As we provide 2026 guidance for the first time, we are incorporating this growth trajectory and the associated timing effects while being disciplined and realistic in how we frame expectations. The underlying trajectory, revenue compounding, cohorts maturing, a lean cost base, give us confidence in the path ahead. Thank you.

Speaker #2: In 2026, we expect to continue to expand revenues faster than our operating costs as we focus on building the consumer bank of the future.

Speaker #2: As we provide 2026 guidance for the first time, we are incorporating this growth trajectory and the associated timing effects while being disciplined and realistic in how we frame expectations.

Speaker #2: The underlying trajectory, revenue compounding, cohorts maturing, and a lean cost base give us confidence in the path ahead. Thank you.

Speaker #1: Thank you for that presentation. We'll start with three investor questions from, say, Technologies. The first question is from Shubhayan: When are you planning to become profitable?

Filippa Bolz: Thank you for that presentation. We'll start with three investor questions from Say Technologies. The first question is from Shubayan: When are you planning to become profitable? Klarna's share price has declined since the IPO, and investors aren't happy. What changes do you think may be needed in the organization or the products?

Speaker #1: Klarna’s share price has declined since the IPO, and investors aren’t happy. What changes do you think may be needed in the organization or the products?

Speaker #2: That's a great question. So, as our illustrative examples showed, this is how the dynamics work in general. Every additional $1 billion in loans that we add in a single quarter will reduce TMD, or transaction margin dollars, by something like $25 million that same quarter.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: That's a great question. So as our illustrative example showed, this is how the dynamics work in general. Every additional $1 billion in loans that we add in a single quarter will reduce TMD, or transaction margin dollars, by something like $25 million that same quarter, but it will increase transaction margin dollars by $60 million in the upcoming quarters. So the more we grow in these books, especially, the more profit we're generating for the future. So the real question is simply: Do we want to make more money, even if it means slightly less today, to make significantly more tomorrow? Obviously, for how long? Well, the good news is we have natural cushions. As we sell more loan portfolios, where revenue and cost are recognized immediately, the timing effect diminishes.

Speaker #2: But it will increase transaction margin dollars by 60 million in the upcoming quarters. So the more we grow in these books, especially the more profit we're generating for the future.

Speaker #2: So the real question is simply, do we want to make more money even if it means slightly less today to make significantly more tomorrow?

Speaker #2: Obviously, for how long? Well, the good news is we have natural cushions. As we sell more loan portfolios, where revenue and cost are recognized immediately, the timing effect diminishes.

Speaker #2: We did 4.5 billion in fair financing last year, growing 165%, winning deals like Walmart and rolling out across all Stripe merchants and so forth.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: We did $4.5 billion in fair financing last year, growing 165%, winning deals like Walmart and rolling out across all Stripe merchants and so forth. So as these growth rates obviously eventually will normalize, so will this dynamic. Some of you may even remember JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon famously said on the Sapphire card that he wished he'd taken twice the losses. This was 2017. Slightly different rules, but same concept. So the question becomes: Given that we can issue those additional loans, should we? And as a shareholder, at least, my answer is an absolute yes. Klarna has issued over half a trillion dollars in loans over 20 years, with record low losses across that entire period. That's a proven underwriting machine, and when we have the opportunity to deploy that machine and create significant value, we should.

Speaker #2: So, as these growth rates obviously eventually will normalize, so will this dynamic. Some of you may even remember JPMorgan Chase faced this—Jamie Dimon famously said on the Sapphire card that he wished he'd taken twice the losses.

Speaker #2: This was 2017. Slightly different rules, but the same concept. So the question becomes, given that we can issue those additional loans, should we? And as a shareholder at least, my answer is an absolute yes.

Speaker #2: Klarna has issued over half a trillion dollars in loans over 20 years, with record-low losses across that entire period. That's a proven underwriting machine.

Speaker #2: And when we have the opportunity to deploy that machine and create significant value, we should. In addition to that, to answer the question even more specifically, Niclas will speak about our guidance soon to give you a more concrete answer for this year.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: In addition to that, to answer the question even more specifically, Niclas will speak about our guidance soon to give you a more concrete answer for this year.

Speaker #1: Thank you. The second question is from Mark. How will you prioritize capital allocation between reinvestment, debt reduction, and shareholder returns over the next 12 to 24 months?

Filippa Bolz: Thank you. The second question is from Mark: How will you prioritize capital allocation between reinvestment, debt reduction, and shareholder returns over the next 12 to 24 months?

Speaker #2: Well, I think it's a, you know, we're seeing really fantastic growth here. And we're seeing an amazing acceleration in the adoption of our banking products.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Well, I think it's a... You know, we're seeing really fantastic growth here, and we're seeing an amazing acceleration in the adoption of our banking products. And you may, at the same time, some of you may have picked up that we have a rapid product announcements, and we're basically quickly closing any feature gaps to both neobanks and incumbents alike. All of this while being disciplined on cost. So the outcome of this translates to more revenue and more profit. And when it is in the books, we can also discuss what we will do with it.

Speaker #2: And you may, at the same time—some of you may have picked up that we have rapid product announcements. And we're basically quickly closing any feature gaps to both neobanks and incumbents alike.

Speaker #2: All of this while being disciplined on costs. So, the outcome of this translates to more revenue and more profit. And when it is in the books, we can also discuss what we will do with it.

Speaker #1: And the third and final question is from Adam. With the 102% searching credit loss provisions reported in Q3 '25, still weighing on sentiment, what are the latest delinquency trends and how confident are you that provisions will stabilize or decline as the percentage of GMB heading into 2026?

Filippa Bolz: The third and final question is from Adam: With the 102% surge in credit loss provisions reported in Q3 2025 still weighing on sentiment, what are the latest delinquency trends, and how confident are you that provisions will stabilize or decline as a percentage of GMV heading into 2026?

Speaker #2: Thanks, Filippa. That's a great question. From a credit perspective, what we're seeing is actually stability, not a deterioration. Provision for credit losses actually declined in Q4 versus Q3 from 0.72% of GMB to 0.65%.

Niclas Neglén: Thanks, Filippa. That's a great question. You know, from a credit perspective, what we're seeing is actually stability, not a deterioration. Provision for credit losses actually declined in Q4 versus Q3, from 0.72% of GMV to 0.65%, and that's really reflects both a stable delinquency trend and an impact of the increased loan sales that Sebastian previously explained.

Speaker #2: And that's really reflected both a stable delinquency trend and an impact of the increased loan sales. That's Sebastian previously explained.

Speaker #1: Thank you. We will now move to questions from the analysts. A friendly reminder that to join the queue, participants should dial #Q5 on their telephone keypad and please limit yourself to one question.

Filippa Bolz: ... Thank you. We will now move to questions from the analysts. A friendly reminder that to join the queue, participants should dial pound key five on their telephone keypad, and please limit yourself to one question. Our first question comes from Sanjay Sakhrani at KBW. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: Our first question comes from Sanjay Sakrani at KBW. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Good morning. Appreciate all the commentary. Niclas, do you mind just digging a little bit deeper into this quarter's impact from the excess loan growth?

Sanjay Sakhrani: Thank you. Good morning. I appreciate all the commentary. Niclas, do you mind just digging a little bit deeper into this quarter's impact from the excess loan growth? I'm just trying to parse apart, you know, sort of the provision related to credit versus the provision related to growth that sort of speaks to that mitigating impact on Transaction Margin Dollars. And then maybe if you could talk about how it might affect 2026, that would be great, too.

Speaker #3: I'm just trying to parse apart sort of the provision-related to credit versus the provision-related to growth, that sort of speaks to that mitigating impact on transaction margin dollars.

Speaker #3: And then maybe if you could talk about how it might affect 2026, that would be great too.

Speaker #2: Great. Thanks. Hi, Sanjay. Thanks for your question. Look, I mean, in Q4 '25, and I think the dynamics are here are twofold, right? You're seeing a very strong growth and seasonality that drove significantly higher paid later volumes.

Niclas Neglén: Great. Thanks. Hi, Sanjay, thanks for your question. Look, I mean, in Q4 2025, and I think the dynamics here are twofold, right? You're seeing a very strong growth and seasonality that drove significantly higher pay later volumes, and those are on our non-interest-bearing loan product, right? These are actually classified as sold or held for sale as part of the cost of funds, which you can see in the broken-out report that you have on the CFO letter, right? And these loans are actually primarily sold through our forward flow programs, and so those loans are measured at fair value. And so the result is that you get a fair value adjustment that is substantially offset by a corresponding reduction in the provisions for credit losses.

Speaker #2: And those are on our non-interest-bearing loan product, right? These are actually classified as sold or held for sale as part of the cost of funds, which you can see in the broken-out report that you have on the CFO letter, right?

Speaker #2: And these loans are actually primarily sold through our forward flow programs. And so those loans are measured at fair value. And so the result is that you get a fair value adjustment that is substantially offset by a corresponding reduction in the provisions for credit losses.

Speaker #2: And while you then see the credit losses that we have today, primarily then driven by fair financing. And if you think about it, right, and we've broken out the fair financing volume as well in the back end of the paper.

Niclas Neglén: And while you then see the credit losses that we have today, primarily then driven by Fair financing. And if you think about it, right, and we've broken out the Fair financing volume as well in the back end of the paper, but ultimately what you're seeing is a mix shift towards Fair financing that was stronger than what we had expected, as we're seeing more and more banking consumers coming with more banking products with us. And that's really what's been driving that. 2026, you know, we have a guidance there, and I can take you through the details of that, but ultimately, we're seeing similar trends there. You know, year to date in January, we're seeing good, moderately stronger growth than in Q4 2025.

Speaker #2: But ultimately, what you're seeing is a mix shift towards fair financing that was stronger than what we had expected as we're seeing more and more banking consumers coming with more banking products with us.

Speaker #2: And that's really what's been driving that. '26, you know, we have a guidance there, and I can take you through the details of that.

Speaker #2: But ultimately, we're seeing similar trends there year to date in January. We're seeing good, moderately stronger growth than in Q4 '25, and so I think we're heading in that right direction from that perspective.

Niclas Neglén: I think we're heading in that right direction, from that perspective.

Speaker #1: Perfect. Thank you so much.

Filippa Bolz: Perfect. Thank you so much.

Speaker #2: Okay, great.

Speaker #3: Maybe just one follow-up for, yeah.

Sanjay Sakhrani: Okay, great. Maybe just one follow-up for... Yep.

Speaker #1: Okay. Yes, go ahead.

Filippa Bolz: Okay.

Niclas Neglén: Go ahead.

Filippa Bolz: Yes, go ahead.

Speaker #2: Go ahead, Sanjay.

Speaker #3: Sorry. I didn't know if I could ask too. Maybe just one quick follow-up for Sebastian. I mean, maybe just how you feel like the Walmart rollout has played out, if you're happy with it, and sort of any traction otherwise you're seeing in the United States.

Niclas Neglén: Go ahead, Sanjay.

Sanjay Sakhrani: Sorry, I didn't know if I could ask two. Maybe just one quick follow-up for Sebastian. I mean, maybe just how you feel like the Walmart rollout has played out, if you're happy with it, and sort of any traction otherwise you're seeing in the United States. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Speaker #2: No, I think Walmart is obviously one great accomplishment. And it's looking really well when you look at the rollout. But I think that what excites me the most is the strategy that we set up that we're executing on, which is to become a truly third-party network and rely even stronger on the distribution of our partners.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: No, I think, Walmart is obviously one great accomplishment, and it's looking really well when you look at the rollout. But I think that what excites me the most is the strategy that we set up, that we're executing on, which is to become a truly third-party network and rely even stronger on the distribution of our partners, be it JPMorgan Chase, be it Stripe, be it Adyen, and so forth. And that's why you're seeing these acceptance points and merchant numbers coming up so much. This is also why you're seeing Fair financing growth, because not all of our merchants historically had that, and the way we now work with our distributors is we try to make sure that they offer all of our payment methods.

Speaker #2: Be it JP Morgan Chase, be it Stripe, be it Adyen. And so forth. And that's why you're seeing these acceptance points in merchant numbers coming up so much.

Speaker #2: This is also why you're seeing fair financing growth, because not all of our merchants historically had that. And the way we now work with our distributors is we try to make sure that they offer all of our payment methods.

Speaker #2: So not only is it about number of merchants that accept us, it's also about making sure that pay now, pay in later, as well as fair financing is available at every checkout.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: So not only is it about number of merchants that accept us, it's also about making sure that pay now, paying later, as well as fair financing, is available at every checkout. So there's always a relevant payment option independently of what the retailer might be selling, everything from furniture to games. And so, And that's really what's kind of what is the foundation of this growth. But at the same point of time, it's early days. A lot of these large distributors of ours are still implementing, still taking us live and so forth, and that's why we're pleased about this, because we know that this will continue to drive very solid growth for us in the coming years.

Speaker #2: So there's always a relevant payment option independently of what the retailer might be selling. Everything from furniture to games. And so that's really what's kind of what is the foundation of this growth.

Speaker #2: But at the same point in time, it's early days. A lot of these large distributors of ours are still implementing, still taking us live, and so forth.

Speaker #2: And that's why we're pleased about this, because we know that this will continue to drive very solid growth for us in the coming years.

Speaker #2: So, very happy about what we've seen so far with Walmart, and also generally seeing the effect of this both in the US and then globally as well.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: So, very happy about what we've seen so far with Walmart and also general seeing the effect of this, both in the US and then globally as well.

Speaker #1: Perfect. Thank you so much. The next question comes from Will Nance at Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead, Will.

Filippa Bolz: Perfect. Thank you so much.

Sanjay Sakhrani: Thank you.

Filippa Bolz: The next question comes from Will Nance at Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead, Will.

Speaker #4: Hey, guys. Good morning. Thank you for taking the questions here. I was wondering if we could drill down into the transaction margin expectations for the coming year.

Will Nance: Hey, guys. Good morning. Thank you for taking the questions here. I was wondering if we could drill down into the transaction margin expectations for the coming year. As we look at the guidance that you guys have laid out, it you know it seems like transaction margin is coming in roughly 10% or so below current consensus expectations, and hear you on sort of the front-loading impact of provisions in GMV. But when we look at Q1, you know, GMV was you know much closer to the guide, whereas transaction margin was something like you know 3 or 4 points below. So like, I guess, with that context, can you talk about the transaction margin trajectory that you are expecting now versus what you had previously expected?

Speaker #4: As we look at the guidance that you guys have laid out, it seems like transaction margin is coming in roughly 10% or so below current consensus expectations.

Speaker #4: And hear you on sort of the front-loading impact of provisions in GMV. But when we look at the first quarter, GMV was much closer to the guide, whereas transaction margin was something like 3%, , 4 points below.

Speaker #4: So I guess with that context, can you talk about the transaction margin trajectory that you are expecting now versus what you had previously expected?

Speaker #4: What are the changes and how do you think about the path to getting towards transaction margins in the kind of 115 to 120 range where the company had operated historically prior to the big expansion and lending?

Will Nance: What are the changes, and how do you think about the path to getting towards transaction margins, you know, in the kind of 115 to 120 range, where the company had operated historically prior to the big expansion in lending? Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Sure, Will. Thanks a lot for the question. I appreciate that. So maybe just before kind of answering you specifically, I think it's good for me to just take you through our thoughts on the guidance and how we've kind of thought about it.

Niclas Neglén: Sure, Will. Thanks a lot for the question. I appreciate that. So maybe just before kind of answering you specifically, I think it's good for me to just take you through our thoughts on the guidance and, and how we've kind of thought about it. So I'll start with that a little bit. Start with Q1, right? So we've, like I said, already entered 2026 with a strong momentum. We're tracking modestly ahead of Q4 2025 levels already. The banking products, Fair financing, the kind of card, et cetera, remains the primary driver of that growth, and we're seeing that continued strong adoption, right? So that is one element of what we're seeing into 2026, right?

Speaker #2: So I'll start with that a little bit. Start with the first quarter, right? So we've, like I said already, entered 2026 with strong momentum.

Speaker #2: We're tracking modestly ahead of Q4 '25 levels already. The banking products, fair financing, the kind of card, et cetera, remains the primary driver of that growth.

Speaker #2: And we're seeing that continued strong adoption, right? So that is one element of what we're seeing into '26, right? Our forward flow programs, which are providing that kind of capital-like foundation for the sustained higher growth, we actually expect to continue to execute some of these agreements throughout the year, including one in Q1.

Niclas Neglén: Our forward flow programs, which are providing that kind of capital-like foundation for the sustained higher growth, we actually expect to continue to execute some of these agreements throughout the year, including one in Q1. And that's actually reflected in our transaction margin dollars and our adjusted operating income ranges for Q1 as well. So JV is also expected to be broadly consistent with Q4 2025, as we continue that investment in supporting the rapid scaling, right? And so what you should be able to see then, when we get into 2026 in full year, right, you're going to see that GMV growth and revenue growth in line with 2025, which, you know, on the context of $127 billion worth of volume this year, I think is very, very healthy growth.

Speaker #2: And that's actually reflected in our transaction margin dollars and our adjusted operating income ranges for Q1 as well. So GMV is also expected to be broadly consistent with Q4 '25.

Speaker #2: As we continue that investment in supporting the rapid scaling, right? And so what you should be able to see then when we get into 2026 in full year, right, you're going to see that GMV growth and revenue growth in line with 2025, which on the context of 127 billion worth of volume this year, I think is very, very healthy growth.

Speaker #2: As a mix of maturing fair financing codes increase, where you're going to see is revenue compounding through the year and transaction margin growth accelerating into the second half.

Niclas Neglén: As the mix of maturing Fair Financing cohorts increase, what you're going to see is revenue compounding through the year and transaction margin growth accelerating into the second half. That's really the natural payoff of that upfront provisioning model, which you highlighted yourself, right? Adjusted operating income margins is expected then to become greater than about 6.9%, as we continue to have that revenue and TMD outpace the growth of our operating costs, right? Ultimately, in very simple terms, when you look at transaction margin dollars, it is really a mixed question of the geographies we're growing in, but also in regards to how much Fair Financing that we're doing as part of that banking evolution that Sebastian spoke about.

Speaker #2: And that's really the natural payoff of that upfront provisioning model which you highlighted yourself, right? So adjusted operating income margins is expected then to become greater than about 6.9%.

Speaker #2: As we continue to have that revenue and TMD outpace the growth of our operating costs, right? So, ultimately, in very simple terms, when you look at transaction margin dollars, it is really a mix question of the geographies we're growing in, but also in regards to how much fair financing that we're doing as part of that banking evolution that Sebastian spoke about.

Speaker #4: That's great. Appreciate all that color. And just you mentioned the offloading dynamics. Starting in the first quarter, likely continuing for the year. I was wondering if you could provide your latest thoughts on just expected offloading on the fair financing to the amount of loans sold in the quarter?

Harshita Rawat: That's great. Appreciate all that color. And just you mentioned the offloading, dynamics, you know, starting in Q1, likely continuing for the year. I was wondering if you could provide your latest thoughts on just expected offloading on the Fair Financing to, to the amount of loans sold in the quarter. Is there any kind of parameters around per-percentage of production sold that you guys are targeting for the full year, as we just try to true up that part of the model? Thank you.

Speaker #4: Is there any kind of parameters around percentage of production sold that you guys are targeting for the full year as we just try to drew up that part of the model?

Speaker #4: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Yes, we're not going to give exact guidance because we are really commercial in the way that we think about this. We have some great partners that we work with in this regard.

Niclas Neglén: Yes. We're not going to give exact guidance, because, you know, we are really commercial in the way that we think about this. We have some great partners that we work with in this regard, but we also want to be sure that we balance it, right? So my expectation is that, you know, we're looking at a transaction in Q1. If you look at Q4, we sold about $1.6 billion; this transaction will be slightly smaller than that, right? And so what we'll see is through the year, as and when it makes sense to do these sales, we will be executing them, and that might change depending on quarter to quarter, right? So that, that's probably the best I can answer at this stage.

Speaker #2: But we also want to be sure that we balance it, right? So my expectation is that we're looking at a transaction in Q1. If you look at Q4, we sold about 1.6 billion.

Speaker #2: This transaction will be slightly smaller than that, right? And so what we'll see is through the year, as and when it makes sense to do these sales, we will be executing them.

Speaker #2: And that might change depending on quarter to quarter, right? So that's probably the best I can answer at this stage.

Speaker #4: Got it. Thank you for taking the questions.

Harshita Rawat: Got it. Thank you for taking the question.

Will Nance: Got it. Thank you for taking the question.

Speaker #2: You're welcome.

Speaker #1: Thank you so much. Over to our next question. Which comes from Jason Kupferberg at Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Niclas Neglén: You're welcome.

Filippa Bolz: Thank you so much. Over to our next question, which comes from Jason Kupferberg at Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the question. So can you just talk maybe a little bit more specifically about what you're embedding in the guidance for 2026 for fair financing?

Jason Kupferberg: Hi, guys, thanks for taking the question. So can you just talk maybe a little bit more specifically about what you're embedding in the guidance for 2026 for Fair financing, specifically just, just in terms of loan growth there? I mean, obviously you're going to lap Walmart later this year, but, would love to get a sense of what's assumed in the initial outlook here.

Speaker #5: Specifically, just in terms of loan growth there. I mean, obviously, you're going to lap Walmart later this year, but would love to get a sense of what's assumed in the initial outlook here.

Speaker #2: Yeah. So we're not going to give a specific split. But what I can say is that we're going to, from an absolute volume base, accelerate in comparison to 2025.

Niclas Neglén: Yeah. So we're not going to give specific splits, but what I can say is that we're going to, from an absolute volume base, accelerate in comparison to 2025. Now, as we go through the year, just given the fact that we started where we started and have been scaling so quickly, the year-over-year percentage comps through the year will kind of pan out or kind of decelerate to some extent, right? But that's from a percentage perspective. On an absolute basis, we're continuing to compound.

Speaker #2: Now, as we go through the year, just given the fact that we started where we started and have been scaling so quickly, the year-over-year percentage comes through the year will kind of pan out or kind of decelerate to some extent, right?

Speaker #2: But that's from a percentage perspective. On an absolute basis, we're continuing to compound.

Speaker #5: OK. Understood. And then maybe one for Sebastian, just big picture. On a genetic commerce, I think a lot of debate out there about what branded button presentment and prominence might look like.

Jason Kupferberg: Okay, understood. And then, maybe one for Sebastian, just big picture on agentic commerce. I think a lot of debate out there about what, you know, branded button presentment, and prominence might look like, you know, in a, in a truly agentic world, where transactions are being completed natively, on an AI platform. How is Klarna thinking about that, preparing for it? Obviously, you guys have announced some partnerships, but we'd just love to get a sense of what your crystal ball is in terms of what, you know, consumer checkout experience might look like in, in that scenario down the road. Thank you.

Speaker #5: In a truly agentic world, where transactions are being completed natively on an AI platform, how is Klarna thinking about that, preparing for it? Obviously, you guys have announced some partnerships.

Speaker #5: But we'd just love to get a sense of what your crystal ball is, in terms of what the consumer checkout experience might look like in that scenario down the road.

Speaker #5: Thank you.

Speaker #6: Thank you, Jason, fantastic question. Look, I think there are many ways to answer that. Try to keep it short. But first and foremost is that we have believed that this is the evolution of e-commerce for a long period of time that's been part of our thinking.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Thank you, Jason. Fantastic question. Look, I think there are many ways to answer that. I'll try to keep it short, but first and foremost is that, like, we have believed that this is the evolution of e-commerce for a long period of time. That's been part of our, our thinking. As a, as a consequence of that, we have thought it was very important to have the partnerships and distribution of people like Stripe and Adyen, since those are often the companies that people go to, to implement agentic commerce. And so by making ourselves default and always available in all these points, that makes us, like, always available in those points as well.

Speaker #6: As a consequence of that, we have thought it was very important to have the partnerships and distribution of people like Stripe and Adyen since those are often the companies that people go to to implement agentic commerce.

Speaker #6: And so by making ourselves default and always available in all these points, that makes us always available in those points as well. In addition to that, you see things like we launched with Apple Pay and Google Pay makes us, again, available everywhere where those are being used, which, again, then gives us additional coverage in this.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: In addition to that, you see things like we launched with Apple Pay and Google Pay, makes us again available everywhere where those are being used, which again, then gives us additional coverage in this. But then obviously we also, you know, we also court the big AI companies and I can't promise anything there, but like, obviously that's part of what we do as well in that sense. I think the additional thing that I find very promising is that the conviction that we have, which is that buy now, pay later, is a healthier form of credit than credit cards. The fact that it's interest-free, fixed installments, and so forth, this is truth.

Speaker #6: But then, obviously, we also court the big AI companies and I can't promise anything there, but obviously, that's part of what we do as well in that sense.

Speaker #6: I think the additional thing that I find very promising is that the conviction that we have which is that buy now, pay later is a healthier form of credit than credit cards.

Speaker #6: The fact that it's interest-free, fixed installments, and so forth, this is truth. And then sometimes people write about different things in media, this and that.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: And then, you know, sometimes, people write about different things in media, this and that, but the truth is, if you go and ask even, you know, the big AI companies, "Which form of credit should I be using? Which is the one that's most healthy?" It will recognize the benefits that buy now, pay later provides. And so we think the fact that we have a healthier product also means that even AI will recommend to rather use this one than revolve at 30%, right? So, so I think, like, all of these combined, these are the- we, we feel that we're very well prepared and that we are in a great position as this, agentic commerce rolls out.

Speaker #6: But the truth is, if you go and ask even the big AI companies, which form of credit should I be using? Which is the one that's most healthy?

Speaker #6: It will recognize the benefits that buy now, pay later provides. And so, we think the fact that we have a healthier product also means that even AI will recommend to rather use this one than Revolve at 30%, right?

Speaker #6: So I think all of these combines, these are the we feel that we're very well prepared and that we are in a great position as this agentic commerce rolls out.

Speaker #4: Appreciate it. Thanks.

Jason Kupferberg: Appreciate it. Thanks.

Speaker #1: Thank you. Our next question comes from Hoshita Rawat at Bernstein. Please go ahead.

Filippa Bolz: Thank you. Our next question comes from Harshita Rawat at Bernstein. Please go ahead.

Speaker #7: Hi. Good morning.

Harshita Rawat: Hi, good morning.

Speaker #2: Hi, Hoshita.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Hi, Harshita.

Speaker #7: So I want to ask about I want to ask about the competitive environment. Some of your peers have talked about intensified dynamics, in Europe and the US.

Harshita Rawat: So I want to ask about the competitive environment. Some of your peers have talked about intensified dynamics in Europe and the US. Maybe talk about what you're seeing in the market, and then also maybe comment separately on the consumer. Kind of, I think is-

Speaker #7: Maybe talk about what you're seeing in the market. And then also, maybe comment separately on the consumer kind of I think is concern around continued kind of pressure on the low-income consumer.

Harshita Rawat: ... This concern around, you know, continued kind of pressure on the low-income consumer. What are you seeing, hearing from your customer base, both in the US and Europe? Thank you.

Speaker #7: What are you seeing, hearing from your customer base both in the US and Europe? Thank you.

Speaker #6: Hey, Hoshita. Sebastian, I'll jump in on that one. Let's start with competitive. I think that I feel very, very confident on this topic.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Hey, Ashley, Sebastian, I'll jump in on that one. Let's start with competitive. I think that. I feel very, very confident on this topic, and the reason, again, comes back to what we said about our partnerships. It was always very critical to me to become a global payment solution. So many times we talked to merchants in different markets, and they looked for global solutions. And now Klarna is perceived as a global solution, which means that we get tremendous benefit from working with everyone from an H&M, to a Shein, to a Walmart, to Sephora. The fact is that they can work with one party that can offer pay now, buy now, pay later, and Fair financing across all of these jurisdictions.

Speaker #6: And the reason, again, comes back to what we said about our partnerships. It was always a very critical to me to become a global payment solution.

Speaker #6: So many times we talk to merchants in different markets. And they looked for global solutions. And now Klarna is perceived as a global solution.

Speaker #6: Which means that we get tremendous benefit from working everyone from an H&M to a Shein to a Walmart to a Sephora the fact is that they can work with one party that can offer pay now, buy now, pay later, and fair financing across all of these jurisdictions.

Speaker #6: This is not been even look at the big home electronics manufacturers. That has never been possible before. So the geographic coverage means a lot when it comes to signing these deals.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Even look at the big home electronics manufacturers. That has never been possible before. So the geographic coverage means a lot when it comes to signing these deals, and it's unparalleled. Nobody else in the industry has the geographical coverage of Klarna. So you'll always find individual companies in individual markets, but that is just giving us such a tremendous strategic advantage that we see. And that's also super critical when we work with the Stripes and the Adyen of the world, because there, it's also, for them, much more interesting to launch with somebody that can offer their services at such high global coverage. So I feel very, very confident in our continuous ability to grow and preserve margins throughout.

Speaker #6: And it's unparalleled. Nobody else in the industry has the geographical coverage of Klarna. So you will always find individual companies in individual markets. But that is just giving us such a tremendous strategic advantage that we see.

Speaker #6: And that's also super critical when we work with the Stripe and the Adyens of the world because there it's also for them much more interesting to launch with somebody that can offer their services at such high global coverage.

Speaker #6: So I feel very, very confident in our continuous ability to grow and preserve margins throughout. Now, when it comes to the consumer, we are very confident and feel very solid here as well.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Now, when it comes to the consumer, we are very confident and feel very solid here as well. What we're seeing is that, again, the audience that uses our product is an audience that is what we call the self-aware avoiders. These are financially conscious both American consumers and European consumers, who are actively keeping away from credit cards, who are borrowing much less. Their average balance may be, you know, on a credit card, people would have $4,000 or $5,000. As you saw in our presentation, a paying, what we call a Klarna paying customer, has $100. A Klarna banking may have $400 or $500, so it's actually, you know, 10%. So these are financially conscious customers. They enjoy the fact that our products are zero interest, fixed installments.

Speaker #6: What we're seeing is that, again, the audience that uses our product is an audience that is what we call—we have voiders. These are financially conscious, both American consumers and European consumers, who are actively keeping away from credit cards, who are borrowing much less.

Speaker #6: Their average balance may be on a credit card. People would have four or five thousand dollars, as you saw in our presentation a pay what we call a Klarna paying customer has 100.

Speaker #6: A Klarna banking may have four or five hundred dollars. So it's actually 10%. And so these are financially conscious

Speaker #1: Customers . They enjoy the fact that our products are zero interest fixed installments . They find them as a healthier alternative , and they're also keeping their economy in better shape So we see , you know , good performance .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: They find them as a healthier alternative, and they're also keeping their economy in better shape. We see, you know, good performance. We see that they are shopping as they used to, they're spending as they used to, and they are also borrowing responsibly, which we appreciate and find is important.

Speaker #1: We see that they are shopping as they used to. They're spending as they used to, and they are also borrowing responsibly, which we appreciate and find is important.

Speaker #2: Thank you , Sebastian , and thank you , Harshita The next question comes from Darrin Peller at Wolfe Research . Please go ahead

Filippa Bolz: Thank you, Sebastian, and thank you, Harshita. The next question comes from Darrin Peller at Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Hey , guys . Thanks . You know , I really just want to go in a little bit more , maybe for Sebastian on the basically the idea of where you believe the right balance should be between lending and interest income and transactional streams .

Darrin Peller: Hey, guys. Thanks. You know, I really just wanna go in a little bit more, maybe for Sebastian, on the tools, but basically the idea of where you believe the right balance should be between lending and interest income and transactional streams, just as far as the company's longer term goals. I understand it's demand driven to some degree and to the most degree, but anything you could help us with and where you see that sort of leveling off. And then Niclas, just maybe on a short-term basis, we're also trying to understand where we expect to see the inflection on provisions offloaded to a degree, that it actually does help the TMD grow at a faster rate this year, potentially.

Speaker #3: Just as far as the company's longer term goals . I understand it's demand driven to some degree and to to the most degree , but anything you could help us with and where you see that sort of leveling off and then Nicholas , just maybe on a short term basis , we're also trying to understand where we expect to see the inflection on provisions offloaded to a degree that it actually does help the TMD grow at a faster rate this year , potentially .

Speaker #1: Maybe you want to start , Nicholas ?

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Maybe you want to start, Niclas?

Speaker #4: Yeah , sure Thanks , Darren . Appreciate it . And I think it's a good question . If you look at it , what we're actually are looking at from a TMD perspective is a significant uptick in growth , right .

Niclas Neglén: Yeah, sure. Thanks, Darrin, appreciate it, and I think it's a good question. If you look at it, what we're actually looking at from a TMD perspective is a significant uptick in growth, right? And you've seen that kind of sequential increase, both from Q3 into Q4 now, right, with TMD. And I think as we continue to compound through the year, like I said earlier, you know, Q1 definitely still has a lot of that rapid growth, coming in, and then, you know, you start kind of cycling into an absolute growth balance, but then the percentages from a comp perspective, you know, kind of recede a bit into the second half of the year, right? Which is kind of what I said. I think that, that is kind of the, the short answer to that.

Speaker #4: And you've seen that kind of sequential increase both from Q3 into Q4 now . Right . With TMD and I think as we continue to compound through the year , like I said earlier , you know , Q1 definitely still has a lot of that rapid growth coming in .

Speaker #4: And then , you know , you start kind of cycling into an absolute growth balance . But then the percentages from a comp perspective , you know , kind of recede a bit into the second half of the year , right , which is kind of what I said .

Speaker #4: So I think that that is kind of the short answer to that . And I think you're going to see that continuous TMD acceleration through kind of the second half of the year .

Niclas Neglén: I think you're going to see that continuous TMD's acceleration through kind of the second half of the year, as I said earlier.

Speaker #4: As I said earlier .

Speaker #2: Thank you . Nicholas . Sorry , Darren , would you mind just repeating your question for Sebastian

Filippa Bolz: Thank you, Niclas. Sorry, Darrin, would you mind just repeating your question for Sebastian?

Speaker #3: Yeah , I was just trying to figure out what what do you guys think is the right mix ? Sort of in a steady state ?

Darrin Peller: Yeah, I was just trying to figure out what do you guys think is the right mix, sort of in a steady state? Obviously, you're in hypergrowth right now around Fair Financing and your banking products, but trying to get a better sense of where you think that should level off, where you'd like it to level off, thinking about interest income as a percentage of the mix of the business versus other revenue streams.

Speaker #3: Obviously you're in Hypergrowth right now around fair financing and your banking products , but trying to get a better sense of where you think that should level off where would like it to level off .

Speaker #3: Thinking about interest income as a percentage of the mix of the business versus other revenue streams .

Speaker #1: Yeah , it's a great question You know , that's that's I think , as a rule of thumb , even for myself , when I look at those provision for for credit losses , my rule of thumb is that 80% of it is associated for kind of forward looking , about 20% is kind of backwards looking .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, that's, that's, I think as a rule of thumb, even for myself, when I look at those, provision for, for credit losses, the rule of thumb is that 80% of it is associated for kind of forward-looking, while 20% is kind of backwards looking. So, to your point, obviously, as we're growing Fair financing right now, and, and we're kind of in that phase of that being a high, high growth product this point in time. But I don't think that is, necessarily always going to be the case. When we look and compare ourselves to other neobanks, some of the other neobanks, you know, are much, most of them are much smaller on the lending side and much bigger on deposits, on, on subscriptions, on peers, et cetera.

Speaker #1: So to your point , obviously , as we're growing financing right now and we're kind of in that phase of that being a high , high growth product at this point in time .

Speaker #1: But I don't think that is necessarily always going to be the case . When we look in compare ourselves to other neobanks some of the other neobanks , you know , are much most of them are much smaller .

Speaker #1: On the lending side and much bigger on deposits on on subscriptions , on tiers , etc. . So , you know , partially what we're seeing right now is just the effect of the strategy that we implemented a few years back to again , have our partners distribute us .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: So, you know, partially what we're seeing right now is just the effect of the strategy that we implemented a few years back to, again, have our partners distribute us. And you saw that number as well in the presentation, that, you know, still only, you know, about 200,000 merchants offer Fair Financing of the total 800,000. So there will probably be some continuous growth there as more and more offer that product. But, I'm very keen on growing the other revenue lines as well, the marketing revenue, the subscriptions revenue, and so forth. And I think that finding a healthy balance as well as depositing revenue as well. So I think over time, it's, it's probably going to skew more again towards the other revenue lines, but that is a little bit forward more, takes a bit longer time.

Speaker #1: And you saw that number as well in the presentation that , you know , still only , you know , about 200,000 merchants offer for financing of the total 800,000 .

Speaker #1: So there will probably be some continuous growth there as more and more offer that product. But I'm very keen on growing the other revenue lines as well.

Speaker #1: The marketing revenue , the subscriptions revenue and so forth . And I think that finding a healthy balance , as well as depositing revenue as well .

Speaker #1: So I think over time it's probably going to skew more again towards the other revenue lines . But that is a little bit forward .

Speaker #1: More takes a bit longer time and it takes time obviously , because we're a fairly big bank by now . So like even if we make changes to our product and so forth , before you fully see that materialize in the numbers , is is a little bit further out .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: It takes time, obviously, because we're a fairly big bank by now, so, like, even if we make changes to our products and so forth, before you fully see that materialize in the numbers, is a little bit further out.

Speaker #1: Yeah .

Speaker #3: Right . Okay . Thank you . Thank you .

Mihir Bhatia: Yeah. Right. Okay.

Speaker #2: Thank you . Darrin Next question comes from Jensen Huang at J.P. Morgan .

Filippa Bolz: Thank you.

Mihir Bhatia: Thank you.

Filippa Bolz: Thank you, Darrin. Next question comes from Qian Xin Huang at JPMorgan.

Speaker #4: Tyson

Niclas Neglén: Hi, Jason.

Qian Xin Huang: Hi, Jason.

Speaker #5: Hi . Thanks so much . I wanted to ask on the on the processing cost side , if you don't mind a model question .

Qian Xin Huang: Hi, thanks so much. I want to ask on the, on the processing cost side, if you don't mind, a model question. Lots of moving pieces I know with partner and, and product ramps, as we've discussed here, but how should that processing line trend in relation to, to GMV? Any insight there to share? Thank you.

Speaker #5: Lots of moving pieces . I know with partner and and product ramps , as we've discussed here . But how should that processing line trend in relation to GMV ?

Speaker #5: Any insight there to share ? Thank you

Speaker #4: Sure , yes . Thanks . I think in the in the the reality is like partially this is a mixed question with regards to how much volume is coming in from the US , etc.

Niclas Neglén: Sure. Yes, thanks, Jason. I think in the reality is like, partially, this is a mixed question with regards to how much volume is coming in from the US, et cetera, as well as the type of product that you take on, and the tenure of that product. So in the short term, you're gonna see something similar to this, that you've seen, through 2025. But I think the evolution of this in the longer term or medium to long term, right, is very much, one of the... You know, and you've heard Sebastian say this before, one of our focus areas is really to find ways to improve that line, right?

Speaker #4: , as well as the type of product that you take on and the tenure of that product . So in the short term , you're going to see something similar to this that you've seen through 2025 .

Speaker #4: And but I think the evolution of this in the longer term or medium to long term , right , is very much one of the , you know , you've heard Sebastian say this before .

Speaker #4: One of our focus areas is really to find ways to improve that line . Right . And so we are actively looking to find ways to get that trend line to move in , move in the opposite direction , not only purely from a mix perspective , but actually getting things like now that we're now we have a current account , we have the balance , etc.

Niclas Neglén: And so we are, you know, actively looking to find ways to get that trend line to move in the opposite direction. Not only purely from a mix perspective, but actually getting things like now that we're now we have a current account, we have the Balance, et cetera, and we're starting to see refunds come into our accounts, which obviously then reduces the requirement for us to use other rails. What we have slightly working against that right now is also that we have more card issuance, right? As more and more consumers are using us. So similar to, you know, to some extent, similar to the Fair financing upfront provisioning, we are making some investments here with now over 4.2 million active card users, right?

Speaker #4: And we're starting to see refunds come into our account, which obviously then reduces the, the, the requirement for us to use other rails.

Speaker #4: What we have slightly working against that right now is also that we have more card issuance , right . As more and more consumers are using us .

Speaker #4: So similar to , you know , to some extent similar to the to the fair financing , upfront provisioning , we are making some investments here with now over 4.2 million active card users .

Speaker #4: Right . We are seeing a lot of growth . And that that obviously has a bit of cost in the upfront . But what we're actually are creating is a very sticky consumer that's going to help us then to be able to , you know , drive , drive more , more , more , more , more of the transactions within our own rails , which will help to reduce that processing and servicing line .

Niclas Neglén: We are seeing a lot of growth, and that obviously has a bit of cost in the upfront, but what we actually are creating is a very sticky consumer that's going to help us then to be able to, you know, drive more of the transactions within our own rails, which will help to reduce that processing and servicing line.

Speaker #1: And I think to add to that quickly is that , I mean , we in this case , we're coming from Europe , where payment and funding costs were virtually zero or very low .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: I think to add to that quickly, with Jason is that, I mean, we, in this case, we're coming from Europe, where payment and funding costs were virtually zero or very low.

Speaker #1: And then we moved into the US and we've seen significant growth . And we know looking at other fintechs and competitors that are that there are smart ways to fix this .

Qian Xin Huang: Right.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: And then we moved into the US, and we've seen significant growth. And we know, looking at other fintechs and competitors, that are, that there are smart ways to fix this. But it, you know, it's gonna be a continuous focus for us to do that, obviously, because to your point, there's, there's tons of potential in there, but we need to execute it, implement it, and see the results in the, in the financials.

Speaker #1: But , you know , it's going to be a continuous focus for us to do that . Obviously , because to your point , there's tons of potential in there .

Speaker #1: But we need to execute it . Implement and see the results in the in the financials

Speaker #5: Understood . Great . It's a work in progress . Good to know . Thanks for that . I just quickly on the I think Nicholas , you mentioned stable delinquency trends .

Qian Xin Huang: Understood. Right, so it's a work in progress. Good to know. Thanks. Just quickly on the... I think, Niclas, you mentioned stable delinquency trends. Looks like from the charts in the shareholder letter that some of the newer vintages-

Speaker #5: Looks like from the charts and the shareholder letter that some of the newer vintages on the delinquency side are a little steeper and higher than prior vintages .

Niclas Neglén: Yeah

Qian Xin Huang: -on the delinquency side are a little steeper and higher than prior vintages. I, I'm just curious if there's any surprises there or, just want to better understand those.

Speaker #5: I'm just curious if there's any surprises there, or if you can help me better understand those trends.

Speaker #4: No , there are no surprises there , right ? If you look at it again , you have to understand that we're obviously ramping quite quickly through these processes .

Niclas Neglén: Yeah.

Qian Xin Huang: Sure.

Niclas Neglén: No, there are no surprises there, right? If you look at it again, you have to understand that we're obviously ramping quite quickly through these processes, but at the same time, you're seeing that it's very much within the trend base that we expected. As you go, your models, as you scale, get better and better. You can see, that's why I actually included not only the 60 days past due view, right, which is we've been showing consistently, but I also show you the 30 days past due, where you can see that those trends are normalizing over time, right? I think that is a really key point here, right? We underwrite every single transaction. We've been doing this for 20 years.

Speaker #4: But at the same time , you're seeing that it's very much within the the trend base that we expected . And as you go , your models , as you scale , get better and better and you can see that's why actually included not only the 60 days past due view .

Speaker #4: Right , which is we've been showing consistently , I also show you the 30 days past due where you can see that those trends are normalizing over time .

Speaker #4: Right . And I think that is a really key point here . Right ? We we underwrite every single transaction . We've been doing this for 20 years .

Speaker #4: Yes . We are scaling the business . But what we're actually doing is doing that in a very disciplined fashion . And we have the ability with our low average order values and short durations to be able to manage and flex these models consistently .

Niclas Neglén: Yes, we are scaling the business, but what we're actually doing is doing that in a very disciplined fashion. We have the ability, with our low average order values and short durations, to be able to manage and flex these models consistently, and that's really what you're showing, what we're showing on that page.

Speaker #4: And that's really what you're showing . What we're showing on that page .

Speaker #1: I think in addition to that , what's also important is that we the way we think about it is that we prefer starting with buy now , pay later , and pay now with small value transactions , $50 $100 build a big audience of customers that we get to know that we've underwritten , that we've seen their payments performance , and then we're scaling like we're doing now , for financing , where a large proportion of those fair findings and volumes are existing customers that we already have relationships with in underwriting for a few years .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: I think in addition to that, what's also important is that we, the way we think about it is that we prefer starting with buy now, pay later and Pay Now with small value transactions, $50, $100. Build a big audience of customers that we get to know, that we've underwritten, that we've seen their payments performance, and then we're scaling like we're doing now for our financing, where a large proportion of those Fair financing volumes are existing customers that we already have relationships and been underwriting for a few years.

Speaker #1: And that's a critical part of our thesis , which we think is very special to Klarna , that it's important for us to be in those daily , daily transactions , both because it grows stronger relationship with the customer , but also means that we understand them better .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: That's a critical part of our thesis, which we think is very special to Klarna, that it's important for us to be in those daily transactions, both because it grows a stronger relationship with the customer, but also means that we understand them better, we follow them for a longer period of time, and it makes, you know, it helps a lot in the underwriting position.

Speaker #1: We follow them for a longer period of time , and it makes , you know , it helps a lot in the underwriting decision .

Speaker #4: Yeah , I would say that the vast majority of our financing that's being underwritten is with consumers that have had products , other types of products in advance .

Niclas Neglén: Yeah. I would say that the, the vast majority of our Fair Financing that's being underwritten is with consumers that have had products, other types of products in advance.

Qian Xin Huang: Mm-hmm. Right. Appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Right .

Speaker #5: Appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you Moving on to Mihir Bhatia from Bank of America . Please go ahead

Filippa Bolz: Thank you. Moving on to Mihir Bhatia from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Speaker #6: Hi . Thank you for taking my question . Maybe first question I had , I just wanted to start going with Klarna card .

Mihir Bhatia: Hi. Thank you for taking my question. Maybe first question I had, I just wanted to start going up with Klarna Card. Can you just talk a little bit more about how consumers are using the card? Is it actually becoming a top-of-the-wallet card, or is it just being pulled out more for financing transactions? Or the types of customers using it, how they're using the card?

Speaker #6: Can you just talk a little bit more about how consumers are using the card ? Is it actually becoming a top of the wallet card , or is it just being pulled out more for financing transactions ?

Speaker #6: These are the types of customers, and how they're using the card.

Speaker #1: Yeah . Hey , it's Sebastian , so I we are excited about about it a lot . I mean , I think that I probably I was trying to find a bank issuer that had launched a card with this kind of number of active users on such short period of time since this basically started rolling out in summer , I think it's actually unprecedented , which is pretty cool We see very good usage of this product , both in the US and Europe .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Yeah. Hey, Mihir, it's Sebastian. So, we are excited about it a lot. I mean, I think that I probably was trying to find a bank issuer that had launched a card with this kind of number of active users on such a short period of time, since this basically started rolling out in summer. I think it's actually unprecedented, which is pretty cool. We see very good usage of this product, both in the US and Europe. What we're happy to see is that it isn't, to your point, only a, or as you mentioned, it isn't just being used for, like, a pay later or fair financing card.

Speaker #1: What we're happy to see is that it isn't . To your point , only a or as you mentioned , it isn't just being used for like a pay later or for financing card .

Speaker #1: It is actually has a very healthy proportion that's being used for debit transactions for day to day spend , which is exactly what we wanted to do .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: It actually has a very healthy proportion that's being used for debit transactions, for day-to-day spend, which is exactly what we wanted to do. So when we think about this again, like, when we move consumers that we call them the Klarna payers to the Klarna bankers, we want them to adopt more of our financial products. And that is both deposits, debit spending, as well as credit, to some degree, and other the subscription tiers and the cashback offers that we do, and so forth. So we're very optimistic about what we've seen so far in regards to that.

Speaker #1: So when we think about this again , like when we move consumers that we call them the payers to the bankers , we want them to adopt more of our financial products .

Speaker #1: And that is both deposits , debit spending as well as credit to some degree . And other . The subscription tiers and and the loyalty cards and the cash back offers that we do and so forth .

Speaker #1: So so we're very optimistic about what we've seen so far in regards to that .

Speaker #4: Could I just add something , though ? I think it's really critical point to make that what we're seeing is a high teens growth , even in established markets like Sweden , where we have 80% population penetration .

Niclas Neglén: Could I just add something there, Sebastian? I think it's a really critical point to make, that what we're seeing is a, you know, high teens growth, even in established markets like Sweden, where we have 80% population penetration, and that is very much because of the card, right? You're seeing that people are adopting us both online and offline here. And I think that's a very unique positioning for us to find ways to grow with our customers in the way that Sebastian described, but also then ability to expand that monetization opportunity as well.

Speaker #4: And that is very much because of the card , right ? You're seeing that people are adopting us both online and offline here .

Speaker #4: And I think that's a very unique positioning for us to find ways to grow with our customers in a way that Sebastian described , but also then ability to expand that monetization opportunity as well .

Speaker #6: Got it . Thank you . And then if I could just follow up , I want to go back to the questions around the trajectory of transaction .

Mihir Bhatia: Got it. Thank you. And then, if I could just follow up, I want to go back to the questions around the trajectory of transaction margin as a % of GMV or revenues, however you want to answer it. But look, I think I heard you regarding the mix and the fair financing growth spread. But I guess, like, when does the delayed profit from the back book start to offset some of that growth? Like, how are you thinking about those margins, maybe as you go out a couple of years? Where do you think transaction margins should settle out? Like, you know, your competitors obviously given some guidance, and I was just wondering if you have a view on that, like, where transaction margin as a % of GMV should settle out, medium to long term.

Speaker #6: Transaction margin as a percent of GMV or revenues , however you want to answer it . But look , I think I heard you regarding the mix and the fair financing growth , but I guess , like , when does the delayed profit from the back book start to offset some of that growth , like how are you thinking about those margins , maybe as you go out a couple of years , where do you think transaction margins should settle out ?

Speaker #6: Like , you know , your competitors ? Obviously , given some guidance and I was just wondering if you have a view on that , like where transaction margin as a percent of GMV should settle out medium to long term .

Speaker #4: Okay . So I think teamed generally speaking , right , is now moving towards and we're not going to give like longer term guidance and beyond 2026 .

Niclas Neglén: Okay. So I think the TMD, generally speaking, right, is now moving towards... We're not gonna give, like, longer term guidance and beyond 2026, but I think we gave some frameworks previously. You know, we talked about the range of somewhere between 1.5 and 2 percentage points. But again, like, the key thing here is the mix of the revenues that we've got, right? So, you know, the way I would think about this is that we can really, really think about what is the trajectory of the fair financing element of this, and how that is moving forward and scaling. I think as we get an understanding of the abilities of balances of this, we will see how those things proceed.

Speaker #4: But I think we gave some frameworks previously, you know, and we've talked about the range of somewhere between one and a half, two percentage points.

Speaker #4: But again , like the key thing here is to make mix of the revenues that we've got . Right . And so , you know , the way I would think about this is that we can really , really think about what is the what is the trajectory of of the fair financing element of this and how that is moving forward .

Speaker #4: And scaling . And I think as we get an understanding of the abilities of balances of , of this , we will see how those things proceed

Speaker #2: Thank you .

Speaker #7: Okay .

Filippa Bolz: Thank you.

Mihir Bhatia: Okay.

Speaker #2: Moving on to Robert .

Filippa Bolz: Moving on to Robert Wildhack-

Speaker #1: Maybe I can add something on the topic . Just like I mean , generally speaking , Klarna has always seen over my 20 years .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Maybe I can add something on the topic, just as, like... I mean, generally speaking, Klarna has always seen, over my 20 years, is that you either go through high growth phases. When you go through high growth phases, you always see slight, temporary deterioration in GMV, in margins, et cetera. And then, as you kind of mature a little bit and growth comes down, then, you know, profit, transaction margin dollars return. So this is always a continuous discussion, because when you grow faster, then, as we've seen, for example, the accounting that was described and so forth, and this always results in these kind of effects. So,

Speaker #1: Is that you either go through high growth phases when you go to high growth phases , you always see slight temporary deterioration in GMV in margins , etc.

Speaker #1: and then as you kind of mature a little bit and growth comes down , then you know , profit and transaction margin , dollars return .

Speaker #1: So this is always a , a continuous discussion because when you grow faster then as we've seen , for example , the accounting that was described and so forth , and this always results in these kind of effects .

Speaker #1: So that creates a lot of confidence for me .

Niclas Neglén: Yeah

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: that creates a lot of confidence for me.

Speaker #4: Sorry . I think yeah , that's a much better answer to the question . I think from the perspective of long term guidance , I think the key thing is we're focusing on 26 right now and how we're thinking about the transaction margin .

Niclas Neglén: So I think, yeah, that's a much better answer to the question. I think from the perspective of long-term guidance, I think the key thing is we're focusing on 26 right now, and how we're thinking about the transaction margin there is really how you should all be thinking about it.

Speaker #4: There is really how you should all be thinking about it

Speaker #2: Thank you. And moving on to Robert Wildhack, Autonomous Research. Please go ahead.

Filippa Bolz: Thank you. Moving on to Robert Wildhack at Autonomous Research. Please go ahead.

Speaker #8: Hi , guys . You've talked a lot about the upfront provision for banking services . And I guess , you know , in the letter those banking services include fair financing .

Robert Wildhack: Hi, guys. You've talked a lot about the upfront provision for banking services, and I guess, you know, in the letter, those banking services include Fair Financing, but you've also got some products in there that, at least to me, would seem lower loss, like the card and savings. So that's, I think, the thing I'm having trouble understanding is, like, how does Fair Financing was always going to grow this year, but then you're going to also grow into products that would seem to have, you know, a lower blended loss content, yet there's more pressure on the transaction margin. Not pressure, but it doesn't go up as much in 2026. So how, so how do you square those two things?

Robert Wildhack [Director: Hi, guys. You've talked a lot about the upfront provision for banking services, and I guess, you know, in the letter, those banking services include Fair Financing, but you've also got some products in there that, at least to me, would seem lower loss, like the card and savings. So that's, I think, the thing I'm having trouble understanding is, like, how does Fair Financing was always going to grow this year, but then you're going to also grow into products that would seem to have, you know, a lower blended loss content, yet there's more pressure on the transaction margin. Not pressure, but it doesn't go up as much in 2026. So how, so how do you square those two things?

Speaker #8: But you've also got some products in there that at least to me would seem lower loss like the card and savings . So that's I think the thing I'm having trouble understanding is like , how does .

Speaker #8: Fair financing was always going to grow this year, but then you're going to also grow into products that would seem to have, you know, a lower blended loss content.

Speaker #8: Yet there's more pressure on the transaction margin , not pressure , but it doesn't go up as much in 26 . So how do you square those two things ?

Speaker #1: Yeah , yeah . Thank you Robert . Great question . Look I think that the two things are important here . The what surprised us was the embracement of fair financing among our customer base .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Yeah, thank you, Robert. Great question. Look, I think that the two things are important here. The what surprised us was the embracement of Fair Financing among our customer base. So more people took up this product than we expected, and hence, you know, on the Transaction Margin Dollar, you saw more negative pressure because of that upfront booking, which is the primary driver of that. So that is it. But to your point, we're also seeing all these other products growing really well, the card, the subscriptions. Now, ironically, they also come with a slight additional upfront cost. For example, every time we issue a card, there's cost associated with that at the front end of it, so each one of those. But those effects are obviously more limited.

Speaker #1: It was more people took up this product than we expected . And hence , you know , on the transaction margin dollar , you saw more negative pressure because of that upfront booking , which is the primary driver of that .

Speaker #1: So that is it . But to your point , we're also seeing all these other products growing really well . The car , the subscriptions now ironically , they also come with a slight additional upfront cost .

Speaker #1: For example , every time we issue a card , there's cost associated with that at the front end of it . So each one of those but those effects are obviously more limited .

Speaker #1: So we think that you're going to see a positive impact that's going to come as those products have also been growing . I mean , the subscription , the subscriptions products and so forth .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: So we think that you're going to see a positive impact, that's going to come as those products have also been growing. I mean, the subscriptions products and so forth. So I feel quite optimistic here on this, on this topic as well. I don't know if you want to add anything, Niclas.

Speaker #1: So, I feel quite optimistic here on this topic as well. I don't know if you want to add anything.

Speaker #4: To that . Yeah . No , I agree . I mean , the subscription , we're already seeing a huge amount of people coming in .

Niclas Neglén: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, the subscription, we're already seeing a huge amount of people coming in. We have about 3.5 million already, and we're seeing that just expand on a monthly basis. So, you know, those revenues will start building up over time through 2026 as well.

Speaker #4: We have about 3.5 million already , and we're seeing that just expand on a monthly basis . So you know , those revenues will start building up over time through through 2026 as well

Speaker #8: Okay . And then I see the negative fair value adjustment on pay later in the funding costs . Given the short duration there and your ability to grow deposits and the balance sheet capacity , you have , what's the benefit of selling pay later at a discount ?

Robert Wildhack: Okay. And then I, I see the negative fair value adjustment on pay later in the funding costs.

Robert Wildhack [Director: Okay. And then I, I see the negative fair value adjustment on pay later in the funding costs.

James Faucette: ... Yeah, given the short duration there and your ability to grow deposits and the balance sheet capacity you have, what's the benefit of selling pay later at a discount?

Robert Wildhack [Director: ... Yeah, given the short duration there and your ability to grow deposits and the balance sheet capacity you have, what's the benefit of selling pay later at a discount?

Speaker #4: So, the vast majority of the economics of that actually sits in the merchant discount rate, right? And so, the purpose of this is really from a liquidity, as well as from a capital perspective.

Niclas Neglén: So the vast majority of the economics of that actually sits in the merchant discount rate, right? And so the purpose of this is really from a liquidity as well as from a capital perspective. We've done a few of those, and, you know, we may do some more in the future, but ultimately, the key thing here is really to be able to balance how much return I get from every asset that I get in. So there's also a value to Sebastian's earlier point of holding Fair financing that generates a higher yield as well. So it's constantly a mix of ensuring that we keep ourselves capitalized, that we can continue to grow and expand as much as possible, but we want every tool in the toolkit, and that's why we've leveraged this type of transaction.

Speaker #4: We've done a few of those. And you know, we may do some more in the future. But ultimately, the key thing here is really to be able to balance how much return I get from every asset that I get in.

Speaker #4: So there's also a value to Sebastian's earlier point of holding fair financing that generates a higher yield as well. So it's constantly a mix of ensuring that we keep capitalized, that we can continue to grow and expand as much as possible.

Speaker #4: But we want every tool in the tool kit , and that's why we've leveraged this , this type of transaction

Speaker #2: Great . Thank you . Thank you . Moving on to Nate Svenson at Deutsche Bank securities . Please go ahead

James Faucette: Great.

Robert Wildhack [Director: Great.

Nate Svensson: Thank you.

Robert Wildhack [Director: Thank you.

Filippa Bolz: Thank you. Moving on to Nate Swenson at Deutsche Bank Securities. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Hi . Thanks for the question . Maybe I'll sneak into here in some questions on the competitive environment . Agentic placement , maybe a related question on that is just the topic of exclusivity , which I think is probably worth exploring in light of some some recent comments from your competitors in the US .

Nate Svensson: All right, thanks for the question. Maybe I'll sneak in two here. Been some questions on the competitive environment, agenda placement. Maybe a related question on that is just the topic of exclusivity, which I think is probably worth exploring in light of some recent comments from your competitors in the US. I guess our understanding is that exclusivity is more the exception than the rule in the industry. Obviously, you guys have Walmart. I guess, just in light of what we're hearing from competitors, do you think that dynamic is going to change? Is Klarna going to try to go after more exclusive deals, or is something like Walmart, once again, kind of more the exception than the rule? And then briefly, maybe this one's for Niclas, just on funding costs.

Speaker #3: I guess our understanding is that exclusivity is more the exception than the rule in the industry , obviously , you guys have Walmart , I guess just in light of what we're hearing from competitors , do you think that dynamic is going to change ?

Speaker #3: Is Klarna going to try to go after more exclusive deals , or is something like Walmart once again , kind of more the exception than the rule ?

Speaker #3: And then briefly , maybe this one's for Nicholas just on funding costs . I know earlier in the Q&A talking about funding costs , moving from Europe to the US , that went up again quarter over quarter in four .

Nate Svensson: I know earlier in the Q&A, talking about funding costs moving from Europe to the US, that went up again quarter-over-quarter in Q2, presumably because of the continued fast growth in the US. Just wondering how we should think about funding costs as a percentage of GMV in 2026 as the year progresses.

Speaker #3: Q, presumably because of the continued fast growth in the US, just wondering how we should think about funding costs as a percentage of GMV in 2026 as the year progresses?

Speaker #1: I can I can start . Hi , Nate , thank you for the question . Look , I think it is I think that this exclusivity .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: I can start. Hi, Nate, thank you for the question. Look, I think it is. I think that this exclusivity, I mean, sometimes it makes sense to sign those, but I always tell my sales guys that, like, the best competitive advantage comes if we're the most preferred payment method in the checkout by the consumers. And so as much as sometimes it could make sense tactically to enter such deals, we don't mind being side by side with others, just like Visa has been side by side with Mastercard or Amex has been side by side with them, for a long period of time. So instead, what we focus on primarily is that there's always customer preference.

Speaker #1: I mean , sometimes it makes sense to sign those , but I always tell my sales guys that like the best competitive advantage comes if we're the most preferred payment method in the checkout by the consumers .

Speaker #1: And so as much as sometimes it could make sense tactically to enter such deals , we don't mind being side by side with others .

Speaker #1: Just like visa has been side by side with Mastercard or Amex has been side by side with them for a long period of time .

Speaker #1: So instead , what we focus on primarily is that there's always customer preference . And we know by experience that there are some merchants that even offer three options .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: And we know by experience that, there are some merchants that even offer three options, for example, within the Buy now, Pay Later space. And we see that we get- we grab the highest share of checkout, among consumers, and that to me, is like the primary thing to keep an eye on. Then tactically, occasionally, it can make sense to be exclusive, non-exclusive, et cetera. But also in addition, I mean, we see, what's amazing now with Apple Pay, for example, is that, you know, anyone in the US that has any card from any bank can use Klarna Buy now, Pay Later, as an example, on any merchant, without, you know... So, so I think that's the right way to think about it. Build consumer preference is the key long-term strategic objective. Over to you, Niclas.

Speaker #1: For example , within the buy now , pay later space . And we see that we get we grab the highest share of checkout among consumers .

Speaker #1: And that to me is like the primary thing to keep an eye on . Then tactically , occasionally it could make sense to be exclusive , non-exclusive , etc.

Speaker #1: but also in addition , I mean , we see what's amazing now with Apple Pay , for example , is that , you know , anyone in the US that has any card from any bank can use Klarna , buy now , pay later as an example on any merchant without , you know , so so I think that's the right way to think about it .

Speaker #1: Build consumer preference is the key long term strategic objective . Over to you , Nicholas .

Speaker #4: Yeah , great . Look reality is if you if you look into some of the details in the notes , you can see that what you'll see with cost of funds , because we model it in accordance with , with the forward views on interest rates , etc.

Niclas Neglén: Yeah, great. Look, reality is, if you look into some of the details in the notes, you can see that what you'll see with cost of funds, because we model it in accordance with the forward views on interest rates, et cetera, you would expect that to decline or in line with forward interest rates, assuming that they are correct, right? And that's really how we model it. And then, like I said, you know, we have a stable outlook with regards to the forward flows that we're doing. So, you know, those are there already, practically speaking. So to me, that should be support, support and improvement over time, depending obviously on the interest rate base that you see, right? So that's simply where I, where I'd say.

Speaker #4: , you would expect that to decline in line with forward interest rates . Assuming that they are correct . Right . And that's really how we model it .

Speaker #4: And then like I said , you know , we have a stable outlook with regards to the forward flows that we're doing . So you know , those are they're already practically speaking .

Speaker #4: So to me that should be support support and improvement over time . And depending obviously on on the interest rate base that you see .

Speaker #4: Right . So that's simply where I'd say I think the key thing is also just to note on your comment with regards to the US , I think it's important to appreciate that it's not really just the fact that we're moving or we're expanding more volume in the US .

Niclas Neglén: I think the key thing is also just to note on your comment with regards to, the US, I think it's important to appreciate that it's not really just the fact that we're moving or we're expanding more volume in the US. It's actually we're expanding our volume across the board, right? We have very, very healthy growth, both in Southern Europe, but also, like I mentioned earlier, in our established markets, because we are expanding that banking service network, services that we were speaking about.

Speaker #4: It's actually we're expanding our volume across the board . Right ? We have very , very healthy growth both in southern Europe , but also , like I mentioned earlier in our established markets , because we are expanding that banking service that services that we were speaking about

Speaker #3: Excellent . Thanks , guys .

Nate Svensson: Excellent. Okay, thanks, guys.

Speaker #2: Thank you . Your next question comes from James Fawcett at Morgan Stanley . Please go ahead . James

Filippa Bolz: Thank you. Your next question comes from James Faucette at Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead, James.

Speaker #9: Thank you very much . Appreciate all the commentary here . I wanted to follow up on a couple of points that were made earlier .

James Faucette: Thank you very much. Appreciate all the, the commentary here. Wanted to follow up on a couple of points that were made earlier. I guess I want to go back to the TMD and that kind of thing. Is there a point? And I recognize that the pace of Fair Financing growth will naturally drive BQs higher, but I'm wondering if you could talk to us about how we should be thinking about a delinquency high-water mark, where you might, if you got to that, you might feel like you were compelled to pull back on GMV. Just helping us bracket how we should think about that, especially as you continue to ramp Fair Financing and some of the other initiatives.

Speaker #9: I guess on I want to go back to the TMD and that kind of thing . Is there a point ? And I recognize that the pace of their financing growth will naturally drive DCS higher , but I'm wondering if you could talk to us about how we should be thinking about a delinquency , high water mark , where you might if you got to that , you might feel like you were compelled to pull back on GMV , just helping us bracket how we should think about that , especially as you continue to ramp financing and some of the other initiatives .

Speaker #1: I'll let Nicholas answer that . Hey , James . But but again , like , I think it's important to remember Klarna under the time I've been here has underwritten half $1 trillion with , you know , record low Credit losses for that .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: I'll let Nicholas answer that. Hey, James. But, but again, like-

James Faucette: Hey.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: I think it's important to remember, Klarna, under the time I've been here, has underwritten half a trillion dollars with, you know, record low credit losses for that, right? So we have an extremely strong confidence into our underwriting, into our proprietary models and so forth. And as we've highlighted here, we see this as predominantly a question about timing than nothing else, and that's the same that we think about here going forward. So, yeah, so I think that's a beginning, and maybe you want to jump in more specifically.

Speaker #1: Right . So we are we have an extremely strong confidence into our underwriting , into our proprietary models . And so forth . And as we've highlighted here , we see this as predominantly a question about timing and then nothing else .

Speaker #1: And that's the same that we think about here . Going forward . So yeah . So I think that's a beginning . And maybe you want to .

Speaker #4: Jump in . Sure . Thanks . Hi James I think the key thing when you want to think about this is that because we firstly underwrite relatively low average order values and we do so on very short tenors , we have the ability to constantly adjust the portfolio , which is what we do .

Niclas Neglén: Yeah, sure. Thanks. Hi, James. I, I think the key thing when you want to think about this is that because we firstly underwrite relatively low average order values, and we do so on very short tenors, we have the ability to constantly adjust the portfolio, which is what we do. So it's not so much a question of like: Oh, well, there's this bar for something. It's more a question of, how comfortable do we feel with those continuous cohorts that we're looking at? And we're not just looking at cohorts on a quarter or a month or something. We're looking at the cohorts literally on a weekly basis, right? And understanding the performance of that. And that's what we've been doing for 20 years. That's what we're going to continue to do, right?

Speaker #4: So it's not so much a question of like , oh well there's this bar for something . It's more a question of how comfortable do we feel with continuous cohorts that we're looking at , and we're not just looking at cohorts on a quarter or a , a month or something .

Speaker #4: We're looking at the core literally on a weekly basis . Right . And understanding the performance of that . And that's what we've been doing for 20 years .

Speaker #4: That's what we're going to continue to do . Right . And so I think , you know , we've evidenced historically and we've talked about it before with regards to how can we adjust this and what are the impacts of those adjustments as we go along .

Niclas Neglén: And so I think, you know, we've evidenced historically, you know, we've talked about it before with regards to how can we adjust this and what are the impacts of those adjustments as we go along. So that's really how we think about it. And obviously, we're always trying to keep an eye on that profitability, and ensuring that we do this in a balanced fashion, right? And I think we've evidenced that we can do so over the last 20 years.

Speaker #4: So that's really how we think about it . And obviously we're always trying to keep an eye on that profitability . And ensuring that we do this in a balanced fashion .

Speaker #4: Right . And I think we've evidenced that we can do so over the last 20 years .

Speaker #1: Yep. I think, like, underwrite primarily to existing customers, keep low average balances per customer. Again, $100 versus $500 on the banking side, versus, like, the big banks being at, like, $5,000 on a credit card.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Yep, I think, like, underwrite primarily to existing customers, keep low average balances per customer. Again, $100 versus $500 on the banking, versus like, the big banks being at, like, $5,000 on the credit card. So keep like, keep low tickets per on average, and then have very short duration in general, compared to other banks, right? Like, they sit with credit card volumes that are commitments for, like, continuously. We have very, very short durations and have great abilities to adjust our underwriting to macroeconomic conditions, so.

Speaker #1: So keep like keep low tickets per on average and then have very short duration in general compared to other banks . Right . Like they sit with credit card volumes that are commitments for like continuously .

Speaker #1: We have very , very short durations and have great abilities to adjust our underwriting to macroeconomic conditions

Speaker #9: Got it . And then I wanted to follow up on more of a thematic question . I know most of this conversation today has been around kind of the mechanics here , but any initial takes on how unit economics and e-commerce will evolve for for Klarna , especially in an environment where it seems like some of the labs are charging merchants as much as 4% or more

James Faucette: Got it. And then I wanted to follow up on more of a thematic question. I know most of this conversation today has been around kind of the mechanics here, but any initial takes on how unit economics and agentic e-commerce will evolve for, for Klarna, especially in, in an environment where it seems like some of the labs are charging merchants as much as 4% or more?

Speaker #1: No , I don't think really . We have a comment on that . I don't I mean , again , what we've seen is that like we have great distribution and we're growing and and we have we generally still see us as a higher margin opportunity because Europe is used to seeing lower cost of payments .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: No, I don't think really we have a comment on that, either. I mean, again, what we've seen is that, like, we have great distribution, and we're growing, and we generally still see US as a higher margin opportunity because Europe is used to seeing lower cost of payments, and that's where we've been coming, competing from, so.

Speaker #1: And that's what we've been coming competing from . So

Speaker #2: Thank you , James .

Filippa Bolz: Thank you, James.

Speaker #9: Got it . Appreciate it

James Faucette: Got it. Appreciate it.

Speaker #2: Next question comes from Harry Bartlett at Rothschild and Co . Redburn . Please go ahead . Harry .

Filippa Bolz: Next question comes from Harry Bartlett at Rothschild & Co Redburn. Please go ahead, Harry.

Speaker #10: Yeah . Hi , Sebastian . Hi , Nicholas . I just had a question on on GMV guide . I mean , it implies a kind of a minor decel , but I just wanted to touch on your comments around , you know , the US , their financing kind of card all kind of coming in above your expectations and year on year acceleration .

Harry Bartlett: Yeah. Hi, Sebastian. Hi, Niclas. I just had a question on the GMV guide. I mean, it implies a kind of a minor decel, but I just wanted to touch on your comments around, you know, the US, their financing, Klarna Card, all kind of coming in above your expectations and a year-on-year acceleration. So I guess, you know, does that imply that maybe there's, you know, a bit of an offset in some other products or other regions and maybe you could just give us some color there?

Speaker #10: So I guess , you know , does that imply that maybe there's a bit of an offset in some other products or other regions , and maybe you could just give us some color there ?

Speaker #4: Sure . Thanks . Hi , Harry . Look , when you look at the 25 versus 26 , we are literally growing at the same pace off the back of , you know , a significant amount of volume , right ?

Niclas Neglén: Sure. Thanks. Hi, Harry. Look, when we look at the 25 versus 26, we are literally growing at the same pace off the back of, you know, a significant amount of volume, right? So ultimately, when we look at these, these guides for 26, like I said before, we are-- we're very much focused on ensuring that we get the... You know, continue to grow at those paces across all these markets, and I think we're seeing very good growth across all of them.

Speaker #4: So ultimately , when we look at these , these guides for 26 , like I said before , we are we are very much focused on ensuring that we get the continue to grow at those paces across all these markets .

Speaker #4: And I think we're seeing very good growth across all of them .

Speaker #1: Yeah . And I would I would just add again , this is we're coming a little bit down here . Harry , I think look , look , we set out as an ambition to glow , to grow a global retail bank .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Yeah, and I would just add again, as we're coming a little bit to the end here, Harry, I think, look, looking at Klarna, we set out as an ambition to grow a global retail bank. And when I look at this quarter, I see that we're on the path. You know, we have almost 100 million users globally, growing at 28%. We have 15 million now banking, growing at over 100%. We're seeing all the different new revenue lines, such as subscriptions, such as the card, and also Fair financing, growing at a very, very healthy rate. And I think it's very likely that Klarna, if it continues on this trajectory, will become one of the major retail banks in the world.

Speaker #1: And when I look at this quarter I see that we're on a fad . You know , we have 120 , almost 120 million users globally growing at 28% .

Speaker #1: We have 15 million now . Banking growing at over 100% . We're seeing all the different new revenue lines , such as subscriptions such as the card and also financing growing at a very , very healthy rate .

Speaker #1: And I think it's very likely that clown , if it continues on this trajectory , will become one of the major retail banks in the world .

Speaker #1: I mean , if you even look at the current card growth rate and you you just say that you extrapolate that forward , you are very soon to be one of the bigger issues of credit cards and cards in the world .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: I mean, if you even look at the current card growth rate and you just say that you extrapolate that forward, you are very soon to be one of the bigger issues of credit cards and cards in the world. So I think that that is, you know, we're very excited about what we're seeing, and then we, Yep.

Speaker #1: So I think that that is , you know , we're very excited about what we're seeing . And then we . Yep .

Speaker #2: Thank you . We now have time for one final question , which comes from Timothy Chiodo at UBS . Please go ahead

Filippa Bolz: Thank you. We now have time for one final question, which comes from Timothy Chiodo at UBS. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Hey , Tim .

Speaker #11: Great . Thanks a lot . I want to thank you . I want to hit one around Tim expansion and the topic of 0% loans to consumers .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Hi, Tim.

Timothy Chiodo: Great. Thanks a lot. I want to hit one around TAM expansion and the topic of 0% loans to consumers, merchant-funded, so the longer term. You mentioned earlier, talking about sort of starting with smaller loans for new customers as you build, I'm assuming, in the US market. But as we look at TAM expansion, going to higher income consumers, maybe with better credit profiles, it's a bigger topic for your competitor. I was hoping you could just give an update on where this sits within your mix of GMV and where it could go in terms of offering longer-term, pay later, merchant-funded loans to consumers. And then I have a follow-up on the US business.

Speaker #11: Merchant funded . So the longer term , you mentioned earlier talking about sort of starting with smaller loans for new customers as you build , assuming in the US market , but as we look at Tam expansion going to higher income consumers , maybe with better credit profiles , it's a bigger topic for your competitor .

Speaker #11: I was hoping you could just give an update on where this sits within your mix of GMV and where it could go in terms of offering longer term pay later , merchant funded loans to consumers .

Speaker #11: And then I have a follow up on the US business .

Speaker #1: All right . Thank you . That's a great question . Look , I don't think it's necessarily a smaller topic with us . We just have a lot of topics to cover .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: All right, Tim. Thank you. That's a great question. Look, I don't think it's necessarily a smaller topic with us. We just have a lot of topics to cover. So, I think that, like, from our perspective, our experience from Europe is that Klarna, over time, becomes an everyday spending partner for every consumer. I mean, and you have to remember, in a lot of our original markets, like the German-speaking ones or the Nordic-speaking ones, or the Nordic ones, we're seeing, like, a population penetration of, like, 70%, 80% or 50%. So it's really everyone using this product of every background and type. And we believe that the same will, over time, happen in the US as well, and then you will adjust your offering.

Speaker #1: So I think that like from from our perspective , our experience from Europe is that Klarna , over time becomes an everyday spending partner for every consumer .

Speaker #1: I mean , you have to remember in a lot of our original markets , like the German speaking ones or the Nordics speaking ones or the Nordic ones , we're seeing like a population penetration of like 80% or 50% .

Speaker #1: So it's really everyone using this product of every background type . And we believe that the same rule over time happen in the US as well .

Speaker #1: And then you will adjust your offering 0% financing for that is a fantastic offering . And we see great demand among global retailers and global brands again , because they're looking for that kind of offering across the globe .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: 0% financing for that is a fantastic offering, and we see great demand among global retailers and global brands, again, because they're looking for that kind of offering across the globe. They want to work with a provider that can do that with them in all markets. If you're a home electronics or a phone manufacturer, whatever it might be, you find it interesting that you can sign one contract and work with one team, and then get this live in more than 20 markets. So, very much of a big party for Sykes, who's not here today, our Chief Commercial Officer, but not necessarily what we covered mostly today on the call. So yes, and the last question, maybe, Niclas, I don't know if-

Speaker #1: They want to work with a provider that can do that with them markets . If you're a home electronics or a phone manufacturer or whatever it might be , you find it interesting that you can sign one contract and work with one team , and then get this live in in more than 20 markets .

Speaker #1: So very much of a big priority for Sykes , who's not here to our chief commercial officer , but not necessarily what we covered .

Speaker #1: Mostly today on on the call . So yes . And the last question , maybe Nicholas , I don't know .

Speaker #4: If Tim you didn't ask .

Speaker #1: Oh no, you didn't ask. The last one. I'm sorry.

Qian Xin Huang: Tim, you didn't ask.

Timothy Chiodo: Tim, you didn't ask.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Oh, no, you didn't ask the last one, Tim. Sorry.

Speaker #11: That's okay . Thanks . Yeah , it was it was on the US volume growth . If there were any undercurrents that you could talk about , we would have expected a slightly faster growth in the US .

Timothy Chiodo: That's okay. Thanks. Yeah, it was, it was on the US volume growth. If there were any undercurrents that you could talk about, we, we would have expected a slightly faster growth in the US in Q4, given Q3 had a partial contribution from Walmart, and Q4 had a complete or full or close to full contribution from Walmart. We were just wondering if there were other factors that might have led to that lack of acceleration in US volume.

Speaker #11: And Q4 , given Q3 had a partial contribution from Walmart and Q4 had a complete or full or close to full contribution from Walmart .

Speaker #11: And we were just wondering if there were other factors that might have led to that lack of acceleration in U.S. volume.

Speaker #1: Say that . I'm happy to hear that you have high expectations on us personally . I'm very , very pleased with the performance in the US .

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Say that, I'm happy to hear that you have high expectations on us. Personally, I'm very, very pleased with the performance in the US. And, but what I do know is that when it comes to all these big strategic partnerships like that, there is all fixing that, a little bit extra, this and that, and you work on kind of continuously doing that, and that will continue to happen, in regards to all these partnerships, both the ones you mentioned, as well as the ones I've been talking about, like the Stripe of the world and the Adyen of the world and so forth. So, there is continuous, more work getting done there, and we're seeing fantastic results.

Speaker #1: And, but what I do know is that when it comes to all these big strategic partnerships like that, there’s always fixing that a little bit extra.

Speaker #1: This and that , and you work on kind of continuously doing that and that will continue to Happen in regards to all these partnerships , both the ones you mentioned as well as the ones I've been talking about , like the the stripes of the world and the audience of the world and so forth .

Speaker #1: So there is continuously more work getting done there, and we're seeing fantastic results.

Speaker #2: And with that , we conclude the call . Thank you so much , everyone .

Filippa Bolz: And with that-

Timothy Chiodo: Thank you.

Filippa Bolz: We conclude the call. Thank you so much, everyone.

Speaker #4: Thanks , everybody .

Qian Xin Huang: Thanks, everybody.

Timothy Chiodo: Thanks, everybody.

Sebastian Siemiatkowski: Thank you so much.

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