Q4 2025 Celanese Corp Earnings Call

February 18, 2026

Speaker #2: If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press *0 on your telephone keypad. Please note this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the conference over to Bill Cunningham.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Bill. You may begin. Thanks, Daryl. Welcome to the Celanese Corporation fourth quarter 2025 earnings conference call. My name is Bill Cunningham. Vice President of Investor Relations.

Bill Cunningham: Thanks, Daryl. Welcome to the Celanese Corporation Q4 2025 earnings conference call. My name is Bill Cunningham, Vice President of Investor Relations. With me today on the call are Scott Richardson, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Chuck Kyrish, Chief Financial Officer. Celanese distributed its Q4 earnings release via Business Wire and posted prepared comments, as well as a presentation on our investor relations website yesterday afternoon. As a reminder, we'll discuss non-GAAP financial measures today. You can find definitions of these measures, as well as reconciliations to the comparable GAAP measures on our website. Today's presentation will also include forward-looking statements. Please review the cautionary language regarding forward-looking statements, which can be found at the end of both the press release and the prepared comments. Form 8-K reports containing all of these materials have also been submitted to the SEC.

Speaker #2: With me today on the call are Scott Richardson, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Chuck Kirish, Chief Financial Officer. Celanese distributed its fourth quarter earnings release via Business Wire and posted prepared comments, as well as a presentation on our investor relations website yesterday afternoon.

Speaker #2: As a reminder, we'll discuss non-GAAP financial measures today. You can find definitions of these measures, as well as reconciliations to the comparable GAAP measures, on our website.

Speaker #2: Today's presentation will also include forward-looking statements. Please review the cautionary language regarding forward-looking statements which can be found at the end of both the press release and the prepared comments.

Speaker #2: Form 8K reports containing all of these materials have also been submitted to the SEC. With that, Daryl, let's please go ahead and open it up for questions.

Bill Cunningham: With that, Daryl, let's please go ahead and open it up for questions.

Speaker #3: Thank you. We will now be conducting the question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press *1 on your telephone keypad.

Operator: Thank you. We will now be conducting a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before you press the star keys. We ask that you please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up question. Our first questions are coming from the line of David Begleiter with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #3: A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press *2 to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment and maybe necessary to pick up your handset before you press the *keys, we ask that you please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up question.

Speaker #3: Our first questions are coming from the line of David Beglater with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #4: Thank you. Good morning. Scott, now that the business has been stabilized and you've done some improvements on the cost and balance sheet side, what are your updated thoughts on potentially selling some equity to get ahead of this balance sheet issue?

David Begleiter: Thank you. Good morning. Scott, now that the business has been stabilized and you've done some improvements on the cost and balance sheet side, what are your updated thoughts on potentially selling some equity to get out ahead of this balance sheet issue? Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thank you.

Speaker #2: David, our focus continues to be on the plan that we've been outlining. It is really about cash generation first. And I think the team has done an excellent job of prioritizing cash generation and the strength of that in 2025, despite the earnings decline year over year, was evident.

Bill Cunningham: David, our focus continues to be on the plan that we've been outlining. You know, it is really about cash generation first, and I think the team has done an excellent job of prioritizing cash generation and the strength of that in 2025, despite the earnings decline year over year, was evident. And the fact that I think we built, you know, the right elements that can keep that going here in 2026 and beyond. And we're extremely well poised for recovery. So, you know, our focus really continues to be on using, you know, debt. And, you know, we've been able to refinance our bonds and continue to pay off what is right in front of us.

Scott Richardson: David, our focus continues to be on the plan that we've been outlining. You know, it is really about cash generation first, and I think the team has done an excellent job of prioritizing cash generation and the strength of that in 2025, despite the earnings decline year over year, was evident. And the fact that I think we built, you know, the right elements that can keep that going here in 2026 and beyond. And we're extremely well poised for recovery. So, you know, our focus really continues to be on using, you know, debt. And, you know, we've been able to refinance our bonds and continue to pay off what is right in front of us.

Speaker #2: And the fact that I think we've built the right elements that can keep that going here in 26 and beyond. And we're extremely well poised for recovery.

Speaker #2: So our focus really continues to be on using debt and we've been able to refinance our bonds and continue to pay off what is right in front of us.

Speaker #2: So given the fact that our maturities now coming up over the next couple of years are significantly lower than they were and the cash generation that we have from the business, as well as what we have coming from divestitures, we believe is strong.

Bill Cunningham: So, you know, given the fact that our maturities now coming up over the next couple of years are significantly lower than they were, and, you know, the cash generation that we have from the business as well as what we have coming from divestitures, we believe is strong, we feel like we're in a really good position.

Scott Richardson: So, you know, given the fact that our maturities now coming up over the next couple of years are significantly lower than they were, and, you know, the cash generation that we have from the business as well as what we have coming from divestitures, we believe is strong, we feel like we're in a really good position.

Speaker #2: We feel like we're in a really good position.

Speaker #4: Very clear. And just on TOE, what are you seeing for pricing in your contracts for 2026?

David Begleiter: Very clear. And just on tow, what are you seeing for pricing in your contracts for 2026?

Speaker #2: Very little change in contract pricing, David. And I would say in more of the spot part of the business, that's where we've seen more competition with the additional capacity that came on in the market last year, which drove the actions that we're taking.

Bill Cunningham: Very little change in contract pricing, David. And you know, I would say, you know, in more the spot part of the business, that's where we've seen more competition with the additional capacity that came on in the market last year, which drove the actions that we're taking. And I think the team, you know, with the action we announced last quarter about the Lanaken plant closure, you know, we're gonna be able to drive enhanced cost benefit into the business of about $20 to 25 million on a full year basis, of which we should see about $5 to 10 of that this year, and we're trying to bring as much of that forward as possible.

Scott Richardson: Very little change in contract pricing, David. And you know, I would say, you know, in more the spot part of the business, that's where we've seen more competition with the additional capacity that came on in the market last year, which drove the actions that we're taking. And I think the team, you know, with the action we announced last quarter about the Lanaken plant closure, you know, we're gonna be able to drive enhanced cost benefit into the business of about $20 to 25 million on a full year basis, of which we should see about $5 to 10 of that this year, and we're trying to bring as much of that forward as possible.

Speaker #2: And I think the team with the action we announced last quarter about the Linockin plant closure, we're going to be able to drive enhanced cost benefit into the business of about 20 to 25 million on a full-year basis.

Speaker #2: Of which we should see about 5 to 10 of that this year. And we're trying to bring as much of that forward as possible.

Speaker #4: Thank you.

David Begleiter: Thank you.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Patrick Cunningham with Citi. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Patrick Cunningham with Citi. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #5: Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I guess first, just on the sequential improvement in engineered materials, both from a volume and mix perspective, can you just parse out which end markets are starting to stabilize and unpack some of the broader macro assumptions for 2026?

Patrick Cunningham: Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I guess first, just on the sequential improvement in Engineered Materials, both from a volume and mix perspective, can you just parse out, you know, which end markets are starting to stabilize and, you know, unpack some of the broader macro assumptions for 2026?

Speaker #2: Yeah. What I would say is electronics is what I would say the bright spot right now, Patrick. I said it's a net positive on a global basis.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, what I would say is, you know, electronics is what I would say the bright spot right now, Patrick. I'd say it's a net positive on a global basis. You know, we're seeing a global build-out from, you know, AI, as well as data centers, and that's positive in the electronic space, but it's a small part of the overall base of the business. So, you know, certainly auto is a much a larger piece of the base and, you know, the business is gonna trend kind of where that goes, at least at this point. I would say auto is more mixed. You've got, you know, some uncertainty in China with some of the EV tax credits and, stimulus rolling off in China, to start the year.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, what I would say is, you know, electronics is what I would say the bright spot right now, Patrick. I'd say it's a net positive on a global basis. You know, we're seeing a global build-out from, you know, AI, as well as data centers, and that's positive in the electronic space, but it's a small part of the overall base of the business. So, you know, certainly auto is a much a larger piece of the base and, you know, the business is gonna trend kind of where that goes, at least at this point. I would say auto is more mixed. You've got, you know, some uncertainty in China with some of the EV tax credits and, stimulus rolling off in China, to start the year.

Speaker #2: We're seeing a global buildout from AI as well as data centers. And that's positive in the electronics space. But it's a small part of the overall base of the business.

Speaker #2: So certainly, auto is a much larger piece of the base. And the business is going to trend kind of where that goes, at least at this point.

Speaker #2: And I would say auto is more mixed. You've got some uncertainty in China with some of the EV credits and stimulus rolling off in China.

Speaker #2: To start the year, so we've seen some softness in auto in China. Europe has been relatively stable to start the year. And US, with the fleet mix becoming a little more certain and a focus of the OEMs around ice and hybrids, that could be a good thing for us.

Bill Cunningham: So we've seen some softness in auto in China. You know, Europe has been relatively stable to start the year, and US, you know, with the fleet mix becoming a little more certain and a focus of the OEMs around ICE and hybrids, you know, that could be a net good thing for us, but I would say to start the year, it's about as expected.

Scott Richardson: So we've seen some softness in auto in China. You know, Europe has been relatively stable to start the year, and US, you know, with the fleet mix becoming a little more certain and a focus of the OEMs around ICE and hybrids, you know, that could be a net good thing for us, but I would say to start the year, it's about as expected.

Speaker #2: But I would say, to start the year, it's about as expected.

Speaker #5: Got it. That's very helpful. And then with halfway to your billion-dollar divestiture target, just any ideas on timing, potential assets that you'd look to explore to achieve that divestiture proceed target?

[Company Representative] (Celanese Corporation): Got it. That's very helpful. And then with, you know, halfway to your, you know, billion-dollar divestiture target, just any ideas on, you know, timing, you know, potential assets that you'd look to explore, you know, to achieve that, divestiture proceeds target?

Patrick Cunningham: Got it. That's very helpful. And then with, you know, halfway to your, you know, billion-dollar divestiture target, just any ideas on, you know, timing, you know, potential assets that you'd look to explore, you know, to achieve that, divestiture proceeds target?

Speaker #2: Yeah. And just to kind of restate, we called out a billion dollars by the end of 2027. And to your point, we're about halfway there.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, and just to kind of restate, you know, we called out $1 billion by the end of 2027. And, to your point, we're about halfway there. You know, you know, we feel like, you know, we feel good about getting a deal done this year, another deal done this year. And, and we feel very good about, you know, achieving or exceeding that target, by the end of 2027. And, you know, again, we're prioritizing, you know, parts of the business that don't fit, you know, the, the core operating models of Engineered Materials or Acetyl Chain. And that does kind of lead you to, a heavier focus on some of the joint ventures, as we've talked about in past quarters.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, and just to kind of restate, you know, we called out $1 billion by the end of 2027. And, to your point, we're about halfway there. You know, you know, we feel like, you know, we feel good about getting a deal done this year, another deal done this year. And, and we feel very good about, you know, achieving or exceeding that target, by the end of 2027. And, you know, again, we're prioritizing, you know, parts of the business that don't fit, you know, the, the core operating models of Engineered Materials or Acetyl Chain. And that does kind of lead you to, a heavier focus on some of the joint ventures, as we've talked about in past quarters.

Speaker #2: We feel like we feel good about getting a deal done this year, another deal done this year. And we feel very good about achieving or exceeding that target.

Speaker #2: By the end of '27. And again, we're prioritizing parts of the business that don't fit the core operating models of engineered materials, or acetyl chain, and that does kind of lead you to a heavier focus on some of the joint ventures as we've talked about in past quarters.

Speaker #2: So we have what I would say is a pretty robust slate of things that are being worked. But it's hard to get deals done in this environment.

Bill Cunningham: So, you know, we have what I would say is a pretty robust slate of things that are being worked, but it's hard to get deals done in this environment. But, you know, I'm proud of the team for what we did on Micromax. The speed at which, you know, we started that process to when we got it closed was approximately 9 months, which is pretty fast in any M&A market. And so, you know, we're gonna continue to work this with a sense of urgency.

Patrick Cunningham: So, you know, we have what I would say is a pretty robust slate of things that are being worked, but it's hard to get deals done in this environment. But, you know, I'm proud of the team for what we did on Micromax. The speed at which, you know, we started that process to when we got it closed was approximately 9 months, which is pretty fast in any M&A market. And so, you know, we're gonna continue to work this with a sense of urgency.

Speaker #2: But I'm proud of the team for what we did on Micromax, the speed at which we started that process to when we got it closed was approximately nine months, which is pretty fast in any M&A market.

Speaker #2: And so we're going to continue to work on this with a sense of urgency.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Jeff Sakakis with JPMorgan. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question is coming from the line of Jeff Zekauskas with JP Morgan. Please proceed with your questions.

Jeff Zekauskas: Thanks very much. When you take a step back and look at 2025, I think in the Acetyl Chain, your adjusted EBIT was down about $400 million, and your Engineered Materials was down about $120. How do you analyze those changes? That is, how do you see the larger factors that were at work in those changes?

Speaker #5: Thanks very much. When you take the step back and look at 2025, I think in the acetyl chain you're adjusted EBIT was down about 400 million.

Speaker #5: And your engineered materials was down about 120. How do you analyze those changes? That is, how do you see the larger factors that were at work in those changes?

Speaker #2: Yeah. Let me start with acetyls, Jeff. Of that, it was pretty much all driven by volume and price. And you got a mixed element that goes into that.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, let me start with acetyls, Jeff. You know, of that, it was pretty much all driven by volume and price. And you got a mix element that goes into that, so it's largely split relatively evenly between those two, you know, of which, you know, a good chunk of that was driven by the acetate tow business. And so that was, you know, I'd say from a product line perspective, that was the bigger chunk. You know, we did see some margin compression, you know, from China as well, that went into that. And then the balance was really driven by Western Hemisphere volume. We didn't have as much margin compression in the non-tow part of the portfolio in the Western Hemisphere.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, let me start with acetyls, Jeff. You know, of that, it was pretty much all driven by volume and price. And you got a mix element that goes into that, so it's largely split relatively evenly between those two, you know, of which, you know, a good chunk of that was driven by the acetate tow business. And so that was, you know, I'd say from a product line perspective, that was the bigger chunk. You know, we did see some margin compression, you know, from China as well, that went into that. And then the balance was really driven by Western Hemisphere volume. We didn't have as much margin compression in the non-tow part of the portfolio in the Western Hemisphere.

Speaker #2: So it's largely split relatively evenly between those two. Of which, a good chunk of that was driven by the acetate TOE business. And so that was, I would say, from a product line perspective, the bigger chunk.

Speaker #2: We did see some margin compression from China as well that went into that. And then the balance was really driven by Western Hemisphere volume.

Speaker #2: We didn't have as much margin compression in the non-TOE part of the portfolio in the Western Hemisphere. So those are the biggest components in acetyl chain.

Bill Cunningham: So those are the biggest components in Acetyl Chain. You know, in Engineered Materials, you know, volume and price were, you know, the, you know, both, you know, I would say semi equal overall in terms of of how much they were down, and then it was offset by, by cost. And we had some, some cost benefit in Acetyls as well. But those are the, the largest drivers, I would say, overall, in, in both business. It really comes down to, you know, above-the-line variable margin.

Scott Richardson: So those are the biggest components in Acetyl Chain. You know, in Engineered Materials, you know, volume and price were, you know, the, you know, both, you know, I would say semi equal overall in terms of of how much they were down, and then it was offset by, by cost. And we had some, some cost benefit in Acetyls as well. But those are the, the largest drivers, I would say, overall, in, in both business. It really comes down to, you know, above-the-line variable margin.

Speaker #2: In engineered materials, volume and price were both, I would say, semi-equal overall in terms of how much they were down. And then it was offset by cost.

Speaker #2: And we had some cost-benefit in acetyls as well. But those are the largest drivers, I would say, overall in both businesses. It really comes down to above-the-line variable margin.

Speaker #5: Okay. And then. For 2026, is your base case that you can get some EBIT growth out of engineered materials but the acetyl change might be challenged to grow in 2026?

Jeff Zekauskas: Okay. And then for 2026, it is your base case that you can get some EBIT growth out of Engineered Materials, but the Acetyl Chain might be challenged to grow in 2026? Or do you have a different approach? And what are the key markets that you really need to have improved in order for Celanese to excel in 2026?

Speaker #5: Or do you have a different approach? And what are the key markets that you really need to have improved in order for Celanese to excel in 2026?

Speaker #2: Yeah, Jeff. When we started 2025, we talked internally in the organization about a mantra around 'act now and win together.' And I think it was really that action orientation that was important, with a focus on cost reduction and free cash flow generation.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, Jeff, when we started 2025, you know, we talked internally in the organization, kind of a mantra around act now and win together. And I think it was really that action orientation that was really important, with a focus on, you know, cost reduction and free cash flow generation. This year, you know, we're still going with act now, win together, and grow. That growth piece that you highlight is important, and I do believe Engineered Materials in the current demand backdrop has, you know, more controllable ways to grow through our pipeline model. You know, it doesn't mean we won't be able to drive growth in Acetyl Chain.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, Jeff, when we started 2025, you know, we talked internally in the organization, kind of a mantra around act now and win together. And I think it was really that action orientation that was really important, with a focus on, you know, cost reduction and free cash flow generation. This year, you know, we're still going with act now, win together, and grow. That growth piece that you highlight is important, and I do believe Engineered Materials in the current demand backdrop has, you know, more controllable ways to grow through our pipeline model. You know, it doesn't mean we won't be able to drive growth in Acetyl Chain.

Speaker #2: This year, we're still going with act now, win together, and grow. That growth piece that you highlight is important. And I do believe engineered materials in the current demand backdrop has more controllable ways to grow through our pipeline model.

Speaker #2: It doesn't mean we won't be able to drive growth in acetyl chain. I just think that the groundwork that we've been laying in engineered materials and our ability to drive innovation and partner with customers and designers and engineers around innovative solutions just we have more degrees of freedom to do that in engineered materials.

Bill Cunningham: I just think that the groundwork that we've been laying in Engineered Materials and our ability to drive innovation and partner with customers, and, you know, designers and engineers around, you know, innovative solutions; just we have more degrees of freedom to do that, in Engineered Materials. You know, it's likely to be in, you know, you know, the higher growth areas like electronics that I called out earlier, elements of automotive continuing to penetrate, in, you know, higher margin, areas in China, and then continuing to partner with our customers on, innovation into, kind of the, what is now the chosen fleet mix, here in the Western world. So those are the big elements. You know, I do think we'll have some growth in medical as well.

Scott Richardson: I just think that the groundwork that we've been laying in Engineered Materials and our ability to drive innovation and partner with customers, and, you know, designers and engineers around, you know, innovative solutions; just we have more degrees of freedom to do that, in Engineered Materials. You know, it's likely to be in, you know, you know, the higher growth areas like electronics that I called out earlier, elements of automotive continuing to penetrate, in, you know, higher margin, areas in China, and then continuing to partner with our customers on, innovation into, kind of the, what is now the chosen fleet mix, here in the Western world. So those are the big elements. You know, I do think we'll have some growth in medical as well.

Speaker #2: It's likely to be in the higher growth areas like electronics that I called out earlier. Elements of automotive continue to penetrate in higher margin areas in China, and then continuing to partner with our customers on innovation into what is now the chosen fleet mix here in the Western world.

Speaker #2: So those are the big elements. I do think we'll have some growth in medical as well. But I would say electronics and elements of automotive are going to be the key components.

Bill Cunningham: But I would say electronics and elements of automotive are gonna be the key components.

Scott Richardson: But I would say electronics and elements of automotive are gonna be the key components.

Speaker #5: Okay. Thank you very much.

Jeff Zekauskas: Okay. Thank you very much.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Vincent Andrews with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Vincent Andrews with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #6: Hi. This is Turner Hendricks on for Vincent. I'm just wondering, could you provide more color around your expectations for second-half earnings to be higher than first-half earnings?

[Company Representative] (Celanese Corporation): Hi, this is Turner Hendricks on for Vincent. I'm just wondering, could you provide more color around your expectations for second half earnings to be higher than first half earnings, and whether you still expect to see $1 to $2 of EPS uplift versus-

Turner Hinrichs: Hi, this is Turner Hendricks on for Vincent. I'm just wondering, could you provide more color around your expectations for second half earnings to be higher than first half earnings, and whether you still expect to see $1 to $2 of EPS uplift versus-

Speaker #6: And whether you still expect to see a dollar-to-two dollars of EPS uplift versus '25?

Speaker #2: Yeah. Thanks for the question, Turner. Our team is still focused on a dollar-to-two dollars of lift. As I talked about in engineered materials, it's going to be around driving growth there.

Bill Cunningham: ... Yeah, thanks for the question, Turner. You know, our team is still focused on, you know, $1 to $2 of lift. You know, as I talked about in Engineered Materials, it's gonna be around driving growth there and, and getting, you know, volumetric growth, continuing to push price where we can, and, and the team continues to, to be focused on doing that in the, in the pockets of the business where we can achieve it. Then, then also continuing to drive our cost reduction programs.

Scott Richardson: ... Yeah, thanks for the question, Turner. You know, our team is still focused on, you know, $1 to $2 of lift. You know, as I talked about in Engineered Materials, it's gonna be around driving growth there and, and getting, you know, volumetric growth, continuing to push price where we can, and, and the team continues to, to be focused on doing that in the, in the pockets of the business where we can achieve it. Then, then also continuing to drive our cost reduction programs.

Speaker #2: And getting volumetric growth continuing to push price where we can and the team continues to be focused on doing that in the pockets of the business where we can achieve it.

Speaker #2: Then also continuing to drive our cost reduction programs. In acetyl chain, it is about looking for those opportunities where the supply-demand balance we can be opportunistic around to be able to drive volume and price and start moving kind of that sequentially on a quarterly basis back in a more positive direction.

Bill Cunningham: In Acetyl Chain, it is about, you know, looking for those opportunities where, you know, the supply-demand balance, you know, we can be opportunistic around to be able to drive, volume and price, and, and start moving, kind of that, that sequentially on a quarterly basis, back, back in a, in a more positive, direction. Look, since the last time we spoke, there's been some things that changed. You know, our interest expense, is, is likely to be relatively flat on the P&L year over year. You know, I think, you know, how we model out our inventory draw this year, it's likely to have, you know, some amount of P&L impact. And then, you know, the demand backdrop is certainly not, at least right now, where we were in the middle part of last year.

Scott Richardson: In Acetyl Chain, it is about, you know, looking for those opportunities where, you know, the supply-demand balance, you know, we can be opportunistic around to be able to drive, volume and price, and, and start moving, kind of that, that sequentially on a quarterly basis, back, back in a, in a more positive, direction. Look, since the last time we spoke, there's been some things that changed. You know, our interest expense, is, is likely to be relatively flat on the P&L year over year. You know, I think, you know, how we model out our inventory draw this year, it's likely to have, you know, some amount of P&L impact. And then, you know, the demand backdrop is certainly not, at least right now, where we were in the middle part of last year.

Speaker #2: Look, since the last time we spoke, there's been some things that changed. Our interest expense is likely to be relatively flat on the P&L year over year.

Speaker #2: I think how we model out our inventory draw this year is likely to have some amount of P&L impact. And then the demand backdrop is certainly not, at least right now, where we were in the middle part of last year.

Speaker #2: And if we return to that, then certainly that would be a really nice tailwind. So I do think that we are working a plan.

Bill Cunningham: And if we return to that, then, you know, certainly that would be a really nice tailwind. So it's. I do think that we are working a plan, you know, to be able to drive growth here this year. And, you know, certainly, if we get any help whatsoever from the macro, you know, the. We are leveraged to be able to move up, you know, very quickly from an EPS perspective. You know, I'll just kind of remind you that a 1% improvement in volume in the Acetyl Chain is about $15 to 20 million a year, and a 1% improvement in volume in EM is about $20 to 25 million a year. So, yeah, these are small changes drive, you know, significant, you know, uplift for the business.

Turner Hinrichs: And if we return to that, then, you know, certainly that would be a really nice tailwind. So it's. I do think that we are working a plan, you know, to be able to drive growth here this year. And, you know, certainly, if we get any help whatsoever from the macro, you know, the. We are leveraged to be able to move up, you know, very quickly from an EPS perspective. You know, I'll just kind of remind you that a 1% improvement in volume in the Acetyl Chain is about $15 to 20 million a year, and a 1% improvement in volume in EM is about $20 to 25 million a year. So, yeah, these are small changes drive, you know, significant, you know, uplift for the business.

Speaker #2: To be able to drive growth here this year and certainly, if we get any help whatsoever from the macro, the we are leveraged to be able to move up very quickly from an EPS perspective.

Speaker #2: I was just kind of remind you that a 1% improvement in volume in the acetyl chain is about 15 to 20 million dollars a year.

Speaker #2: And a 1% improvement in volume in EM is about 20 to 25 million dollars a year. So these are small changes drive significant uplift for the business.

Speaker #6: Great. Great. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the color. Also, when thinking about the difference between first quarter and second quarter earnings, I'm wondering whether we need to reverse the 30 million inventory tailwind that's benefiting 1Q as well as the size of the polyacetyl turnaround and any other bridge items that you might call out.

Vincent Andrews: Great. Great, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the color. Also, when thinking about the difference between Q1 and Q2 earnings, I'm wondering whether we need to reverse the $30 million inventory tailwind that's benefiting Q1, as well as the size of the Polyacetal turnaround and any other bridge items that you might call out.

Turner Hinrichs: Great. Great, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the color. Also, when thinking about the difference between Q1 and Q2 earnings, I'm wondering whether we need to reverse the $30 million inventory tailwind that's benefiting Q1, as well as the size of the Polyacetal turnaround and any other bridge items that you might call out.

Speaker #2: Yeah, I think that's probably the right assumption, Turner, is that the $30 million benefit we're going to get is going to likely draw out there in the second quarter.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, I think, you know, that's probably the right assumption, Turner, is, you know, that $30 million benefit we're going to get is gonna likely dry out there in the second quarter. And, you know, we are gonna have some turnaround and higher turnaround expense, certainly in Q2. So I think, you know, with the dividend coming back in the second quarter, you know, all of those things relatively even out, I mean, you know, Q2 flattish to Q1, and certainly, you know, depending on where the demand environment is, you know, you might get some sequential benefit. But, you know, until we have better line of sight to that, you know, I don't know that flattish is the wrong way to think about Q2.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, I think, you know, that's probably the right assumption, Turner, is, you know, that $30 million benefit we're going to get is gonna likely dry out there in the second quarter. And, you know, we are gonna have some turnaround and higher turnaround expense, certainly in Q2. So I think, you know, with the dividend coming back in the second quarter, you know, all of those things relatively even out, I mean, you know, Q2 flattish to Q1, and certainly, you know, depending on where the demand environment is, you know, you might get some sequential benefit. But, you know, until we have better line of sight to that, you know, I don't know that flattish is the wrong way to think about Q2.

Speaker #2: And we are going to have some turnaround at higher turnaround expense certainly in Q2. So I think with the dividend coming back in the second quarter, all of those things relatively even out.

Speaker #2: I mean, Q2 flattish to Q1. And certainly, depending on where the demand environment is, you might get some sequential benefit. But until we have better line of sight to that, I don't know that flattish is the wrong way to think about Q2.

Speaker #2: As we called out in the prepared remarks, we do believe this year is going to be more second-half weighted, just because of that turnaround activity that we've got in the second quarter.

Bill Cunningham: As we called out in the prepared remarks, you know, we do believe, this year is gonna be more second half weighted just because of that turnaround activity that we've got in the second quarter.

Scott Richardson: As we called out in the prepared remarks, you know, we do believe, this year is gonna be more second half weighted just because of that turnaround activity that we've got in the second quarter.

Speaker #6: Great. Thank you for the color.

Vincent Andrews: Great. Thank you for the color.

Turner Hinrichs: Great. Thank you for the color.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Gancham Punjabi with Baird. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Gansham Punjabi with Baird. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #7: Thank you, operator. Good morning, everybody. Scott, just on the acetyl chain and just zooming out a little bit and think about EBIT margins, which are sort of mid-teens last year versus the previous trend line in the mid-20s.

Ghansham Panjabi: Thank you, operator. Good morning, everybody. You know, Scott, just on the Acetyl Chain and, you know, just zooming out a little bit and think about EBIT margins, which were sort of mid-teens last year versus the previous trend line in the mid-twenties. How much of that differential do you, do you think is cyclical versus, you know, something having changed in terms of, obviously, supply coming on and also some of the challenges that you're seeing on, acetate tow in the spot market?

Speaker #7: How much of that differential do you think is cyclical versus something having changed in terms of obviously supply coming on and also some of the challenges that you're seeing on acetato in the spot market?

Speaker #2: Yeah. Gancham, how I view these things, in our business, over the last 20 years, we've seen structural changes. We saw and these could be headwinds.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, Ghansham, you know, how I view these things, you know, in our business, you know, over the last 20 years, you know, we've seen structural changes. You know, we saw, you know, and these could be headwinds; they can be tailwinds. You know, shale gas revolution in the US certainly was a structural change. You know, the industry didn't get the benefit of that overnight. It's actions that were taken to be able to take advantage of those structural changes. You know, we saw overcapacity in China, for example, you know, come into the market the first time, you know, 2009 through 2017.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, Ghansham, you know, how I view these things, you know, in our business, you know, over the last 20 years, you know, we've seen structural changes. You know, we saw, you know, and these could be headwinds; they can be tailwinds. You know, shale gas revolution in the US certainly was a structural change. You know, the industry didn't get the benefit of that overnight. It's actions that were taken to be able to take advantage of those structural changes. You know, we saw overcapacity in China, for example, you know, come into the market the first time, you know, 2009 through 2017.

Speaker #2: They can be tailwinds. And shale gas revolution in the US certainly was a structural change. The industry didn't get the benefit of that overnight.

Speaker #2: It's actions that were taken to be able to take advantage of those structural changes. We saw overcapacity in China, for example, come into the market the first time 2009 through 2017.

Speaker #2: And it was actions and business model changes that we and others made to be able to drive a more sustainable and higher level of earnings.

Bill Cunningham: And it was, you know, actions and business model changes that we and others made to be able to, you know, drive a more sustainable and higher level of earnings. And certainly even today, where we sit now in, you know, the current market with overcapacity and where it is in acetyls, you know, the underlying business today is better than it was during 2012 and 2013. So I think it really is about how we as a company respond to changes that we see in the market. You know, I do believe that through those changes, you know, you will see things start to move back up. Now, each cycle is different.

Scott Richardson: And it was, you know, actions and business model changes that we and others made to be able to, you know, drive a more sustainable and higher level of earnings. And certainly even today, where we sit now in, you know, the current market with overcapacity and where it is in acetyls, you know, the underlying business today is better than it was during 2012 and 2013. So I think it really is about how we as a company respond to changes that we see in the market. You know, I do believe that through those changes, you know, you will see things start to move back up. Now, each cycle is different.

Speaker #2: And certainly, even today, where we sit now in the current market with overcapacity—where it is in acetyls—the underlying business today is better than it was during 2012 and 2013.

Speaker #2: So I think it really is about how we as a company respond to changes that we see in the market. I do believe that through those changes, you will see things start to move back up.

Speaker #2: Now, each cycle is different. Each cycle is shorter or longer. And nobody can really predict how long it will last. But it is about responding to those changes that we see.

Bill Cunningham: Each cycle is shorter or longer, and, you know, it - nobody can really predict how long it will last, but it is about responding to those changes that we see. On the engineered materials side, we've seen changes as well. You know, the move from ICE to EV in China in particular, is a big structural change. It's not likely to change. We have to adapt to that. We have to change. We have to respond to that from a market perspective, and we have to continue to drive, you know, efficiency in our own business so that when we see small incremental changes in volume that I talked about earlier, you know, those underlying margins are higher in the future than they were in the past.

Scott Richardson: Each cycle is shorter or longer, and, you know, it - nobody can really predict how long it will last, but it is about responding to those changes that we see. On the engineered materials side, we've seen changes as well. You know, the move from ICE to EV in China in particular, is a big structural change. It's not likely to change. We have to adapt to that. We have to change. We have to respond to that from a market perspective, and we have to continue to drive, you know, efficiency in our own business so that when we see small incremental changes in volume that I talked about earlier, you know, those underlying margins are higher in the future than they were in the past.

Speaker #2: On the engineered material side, we've seen changes as well. The move from ice to EV in China in particular is a big structural change.

Speaker #2: It's not likely to change. We have to adapt to that. We have to change; we have to respond to that from a market perspective.

Speaker #2: And we have to continue to drive efficiency in our own business so that when we see small incremental changes in volume that I talked about earlier, those underlying margins are higher in the future than they were in the past.

Speaker #7: Okay. Got it. And maybe a question for Chuck on free cash flow. Obviously, 2025, working capital was big for the year. In terms of driving the free cash flow outperformance there, what are you embedding for 2026 for working capital?

Ghansham Panjabi: Okay, got it. And maybe a question for Chuck on, you know, free cash flow. Obviously, 2025, you know, working capital was big for the year in terms of driving the, you know, free cash flow outperformance there. What are you embedding for 2026 for working capital? And, you know, more broadly, what's defining your confidence on free cash flow relative to what seems to be a pretty challenged operating environment, at least for the first half of the year? Thanks.

Speaker #7: And just more broadly, what's defining your confidence on free cash flow relative to what seems to be a pretty challenged operating environment, at least for the first half of the year?

Speaker #7: Thanks.

Speaker #2: Yeah. No, thanks, Gancham. I think what's driving our confidence is our ability to pull levers to generate free cash flow in all demand environments.

Chuck Kyrish: Yeah. No, thanks, Gansham. I think what's driving our confidence is, you know, our ability to pull levers to generate free cash flow in all demand environments. So you mentioned working capital. It was very strong in 2025 to 2030. You know, we are targeting another $100 million, Gansham, primarily from further inventory reductions. You know, cash tax is gonna be lower this year, $50 to 60 million. Cash interest is down about $50 million, and the cash that will outlay for cost reduction programs that are, that's adjusted out of EBITDA, that'll be lower by about $25 to 50 million.

Speaker #2: So you mentioned working capital. It was very strong in '25 to '390. We are targeting another 100 million, Gancham, primarily from further inventory reductions.

Speaker #2: Cash tax is going to be lower this year. 50 to 60 million. Cash interest down about 50 million. And the cash that will outlay for cost reduction programs that are that's adjusted out of EBITDA.

Speaker #2: That'll be lower by about 25 to 50. So as you know, we plan for a number of different scenarios, Gancham. And we feel confident that we can drive free cash flow into our target range that we provided.

Chuck Kyrish: As you know, you know, we plan for a number of different scenarios, Gansham, and we feel confident that we can drive free cash flow into our target range that we provided, either through modest earnings growth or through these additional levers that we know how to pull.

Speaker #2: Either through modest earnings growth or through these additional levers that we know how to pull.

Speaker #7: Okay. Thank you so much.

Ghansham Panjabi: Okay, thank you so much.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Salvator Tiano with Bank of America. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Salvator Tiano with Bank of America. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #8: Yes. Thank you very much. So firstly, I want to come back a little bit to the APS growth this year. And you have in your prepared remarks all the free cash flow, I guess, outlook and the puts and takes on free cash items.

Salvator Tiano: Yes, thank you very much. So firstly, I want to come back a little bit to the APS growth this year. And, you know, you have in your prepared remarks all the free cash flow, I guess, outlook and the puts and takes on free cash items. And it seems to us, if you do some rough math, that points to probably net income or EPS change, EPS this year of around mid to high fours, as a base case. Does that make sense? And are there any items we may be missing that would deviate, you know, that would make your EPS deviate from that as a base case?

Speaker #8: And it seems to us, if you do some rough math, that that points to probably net income or EPS this year of around mid to high fours.

Speaker #8: As a base case, does that make sense? And are there any items we may be missing that would deviate that would make your EPS deviate from that as a base case?

Speaker #2: Yes. So how I'd look at it is our prioritization right now is around free cash flow and continuing to drive sustainable changes into our business models.

Bill Cunningham: Yes, Sal, how I'd look at it is our prioritization right now is around free cash flow and continuing to drive, you know, sustainable changes into our business models. As we look at the year, we've run a number of different scenarios on kind of where things could play out from a demand standpoint, and then what that translates into EPS. And, you know, for us, that's we're confident in being able to, you know, generate that free cash flow between $650 million and $750 million. So there's a number of different EPS scenarios that gets you to that number, just depend on the movements and timing.

Scott Richardson: Yes, Sal, how I'd look at it is our prioritization right now is around free cash flow and continuing to drive, you know, sustainable changes into our business models. As we look at the year, we've run a number of different scenarios on kind of where things could play out from a demand standpoint, and then what that translates into EPS. And, you know, for us, that's we're confident in being able to, you know, generate that free cash flow between $650 million and $750 million. So there's a number of different EPS scenarios that gets you to that number, just depend on the movements and timing.

Speaker #2: As we look at the year, we've run a number of different scenarios. On kind of where things could play out from a demand standpoint and then what that translates into EPS.

Speaker #2: And for us, that's we're confident in being able to generate that free cash flow between 650 and 750. So there's a number of different EPS scenarios that get you to that number just depending on the movements and timing and the fact that we're second-half weighted also certainly plays a little bit of a role just in terms of how much AR is sitting on the balance sheet as we model it out.

Bill Cunningham: The fact that we're, you know, second half weighted also certainly plays a little bit of a role just in terms of, you know, how much AR is sitting on the balance sheet as we model it out. So all of those factors go into play, you know, in terms of how we model it. So, you know, we're not looking at, you know, a finite range right now. Our focus is on really driving and maximizing as much as we can and working to grow on a year-over-year basis, with an emphasis on ensuring that we are delivering the cash flow.

Scott Richardson: The fact that we're, you know, second half weighted also certainly plays a little bit of a role just in terms of, you know, how much AR is sitting on the balance sheet as we model it out. So all of those factors go into play, you know, in terms of how we model it. So, you know, we're not looking at, you know, a finite range right now. Our focus is on really driving and maximizing as much as we can and working to grow on a year-over-year basis, with an emphasis on ensuring that we are delivering the cash flow.

Speaker #2: So all of those factors go into play in terms of how we model it. So we're not looking at a finite range right now.

Speaker #2: Our focus is on really driving and maximizing as much as we can and working to grow on a year-over-year basis with an emphasis on ensuring that we are delivering the cash flow.

Speaker #8: Okay. Perfect. And I wanted to ask a little bit about capacity additions on the nylon and the foam chain, specifically because these are something you had to face the past few years.

Salvator Tiano: Okay, perfect. I wanted to ask a little bit about capacity additions on the Nylon and the POM chains, specifically because these are something you had to face the past few years. Can you provide us with some information on what may be coming online, particularly in Asia, in these chains? And what is kind of your exposure, given you've moved away from some chains, such as Nylon polymerization? What would be your exposure if there's more capacity coming online in these chemistries?

Speaker #8: Can you provide us with some information on what may be coming online particularly in Asia in this change? And what is kind of your exposure given you've moved away from some chains such as nylon polymerization?

Speaker #8: What would be your exposure if there's more capacity coming online, and in these chemistries?

Speaker #2: Yes. So as we've talked about in the past, our focus really is to continue to build flexibility into our operating model in our nylon business as well as some of our other polymers.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, Sal, as we've talked about in the past, you know, our focus really is to continue to build flexibility into our operating model, you know, in our nylon business, as well as, you know, some of our other polymers. And that means being balanced in, you know, what we make, but also what we buy. And so the additional capacity, you know, that may come on in Asia and, you know, to be very honest, it's already overcapacitated in China, and, you know, we're taking advantage of that by, you know, buying as much polymer as possible because, you know, that's a more advantageous way for us to, you know, be able to supply our business in that region of the world. It is about being opportunistic and about building flexibility, you know, into our model.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, Sal, as we've talked about in the past, you know, our focus really is to continue to build flexibility into our operating model, you know, in our nylon business, as well as, you know, some of our other polymers. And that means being balanced in, you know, what we make, but also what we buy. And so the additional capacity, you know, that may come on in Asia and, you know, to be very honest, it's already overcapacitated in China, and, you know, we're taking advantage of that by, you know, buying as much polymer as possible because, you know, that's a more advantageous way for us to, you know, be able to supply our business in that region of the world. It is about being opportunistic and about building flexibility, you know, into our model.

Speaker #2: And that means being balanced in what we make, but also what we buy. And so the additional capacity that may come on in Asia and to be very honest, it's already overcapacitized in China and we're taking advantage of that by buying as much polymer as possible because that's a more advantageous way for us to be able to supply our business in that region of the world.

Speaker #2: It is about being opportunistic and about building flexibility into our model and what I would tell you is we are going to continue to evaluate options to be able to enhance and maximize profitability in all our value chains, s, including nylon.

Bill Cunningham: What I would tell you is, we are gonna continue to evaluate options to be able to enhance and maximize profitability in all our value chains, including Nylon.

Scott Richardson: What I would tell you is, we are gonna continue to evaluate options to be able to enhance and maximize profitability in all our value chains, including Nylon.

Speaker #8: Thank you very much.

Salvator Tiano: Thank you very much.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Lawrence Alexander with Jefferies. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Lawrence Alexander with Jefferies. Please proceed with your questions.

Laurence Alexander: Good morning. This is Kevin Esteves for Lawrence. So just on working capital inventories again, you know, obviously you're targeting an additional reduction, and I guess I was wondering, what guardrails are you sort of using to avoid service issues? Are there any specific product families, I guess, where inventory is still elevated? And maybe, I guess, what's the timeline to reach a steady state inventory model?

Speaker #9: Good morning. This is Kevin Estecon for Lawrence. So just on working capital inventories again, obviously, you're targeting an additional reduction and I guess that was wondering what guardrails are you sort of using to avoid any service issues?

Kevin Estok: Good morning. This is Kevin Esteves for Lawrence. So just on working capital inventories again, you know, obviously you're targeting an additional reduction, and I guess I was wondering, what guardrails are you sort of using to avoid service issues? Are there any specific product families, I guess, where inventory is still elevated? And maybe, I guess, what's the timeline to reach a steady state inventory model?

Speaker #9: Are there any specific product families? I guess we're inventory is still elevated and maybe I guess what's the timeline to reach a steady state inventory model?

Speaker #2: Yeah, so it's a very coordinated approach internally, right? We're never going to take too much risk on service levels and delivering to our customers, right?

Chuck Kyrish: Yeah. So it's a very coordinated approach internally, right? We're never gonna take too much risk on service levels and delivering to our customers, right? There's many different ways you can reduce inventories. You can reduce raw materials, you can change your offtake agreements, and you can reduce, you know, finished goods, right? So we're in a multiyear journey on that, so we don't ever like to think that we're done. You know, we think we do have $100 million this year, but, you know, we're not gonna stop there. There's a lot of efficiency that EM is driving within the organization, and you're just gonna need less and less inventory as you go forward, right? So it's a constant, it's a constant activity of ours, and we feel good about continuing that progress.

Speaker #2: There's many different ways you can do inventories. You can use raw materials. You can change your uptake agreements, and you can reduce finished goods, right?

Speaker #2: So, we're in a multi-year journey. On that, we don't ever like to think that we're done. We think we do have $100 million this year, but we're not going to stop there.

Speaker #2: There's a lot of efficiency that EM is driving within the organization. And you're just going to need less and less inventory as you go forward, right?

Speaker #2: So it's a constant it's a constant activity of ours, and we feel good about continuing that progress.

Speaker #9: Got it. Okay. Thanks. And then just as a follow-up, so on acetate toe, I guess, obviously, it's one of the biggest headwinds I guess, what are and you touched on some of this already, but I'm just curious what the specific levers that I guess you can do to stabilize or to stabilize toe and basically regional mix shifts?

Laurence Alexander: Got it. Okay, thanks. And then just as a follow-up, so on acetate tow, I guess, obviously, is one of the biggest headwinds. I guess, I know you touched on some of this already, but I'm just curious what the specific levers that, I guess, you can do to stabilize, or to stabilize tow and basically, like, you know, regional mix shifts, any capacity actions, customer inventory normalizations, contract resets? I mean, and I guess, when should we expect measurable improvement?

Kevin Estok: Got it. Okay, thanks. And then just as a follow-up, so on acetate tow, I guess, obviously, is one of the biggest headwinds. I guess, I know you touched on some of this already, but I'm just curious what the specific levers that, I guess, you can do to stabilize, or to stabilize tow and basically, like, you know, regional mix shifts, any capacity actions, customer inventory normalizations, contract resets? I mean, and I guess, when should we expect measurable improvement?

Speaker #9: Any capacity actions, customer inventory normalizations, contract resets? I mean, and I guess when should we expect measurable improvement?

Speaker #2: Look, we're working this with a level of aggressiveness. As we look at every element of the business—and that includes cost structure—it also looks at how we go to market.

Bill Cunningham: Look, we're working this with a level of aggressiveness, you know, as we look at every element of the business, and, you know, that includes cost structure. It also looks at, you know, how we go to market, our, you know, future contracts. In this business, you have to take you know, both a short-term view and a long-term view of how, you know, things are rolling in and rolling off. And so it is really about stabilization. You know, we did see a decline. I do think, you know, there has continued to be an element of destocking. I think there was a lot of inventory throughout the value chain in this business. I think that will probably take another quarter or so. So think mid-year where that evens out, is our current estimation.

Scott Richardson: Look, we're working this with a level of aggressiveness, you know, as we look at every element of the business, and, you know, that includes cost structure. It also looks at, you know, how we go to market, our, you know, future contracts. In this business, you have to take you know, both a short-term view and a long-term view of how, you know, things are rolling in and rolling off. And so it is really about stabilization. You know, we did see a decline. I do think, you know, there has continued to be an element of destocking. I think there was a lot of inventory throughout the value chain in this business. I think that will probably take another quarter or so. So think mid-year where that evens out, is our current estimation.

Speaker #2: Future contracts in this business, you have to take both a short-term view and a long-term view of how things are rolling in and rolling off.

Speaker #2: And so it is really about stabilization. We did see a decline. I do think there has continued to be an element of destocking. I think there was a lot of inventory throughout the value chain.

Speaker #2: In this business, I think that will probably take another quarter or so, so think mid-year. Where that evens out is our current estimation, and then you should get to a little bit more steady state.

Bill Cunningham: You know, then you should get to a little bit more steady state, and I think, you know, get a little bit more balance here as we get into the middle part of the year.

Scott Richardson: You know, then you should get to a little bit more steady state, and I think, you know, get a little bit more balance here as we get into the middle part of the year.

Speaker #2: And I think get a little bit more balance here as we get into the middle part of the year.

Speaker #9: Okay. Thank you.

Frank Mitsch: Okay, thank you.

Kevin Estok: Okay, thank you.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Alexei Yefribov with KeyBank Capital Markets. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Aleksey Yefremov with KeyBanc Capital Markets. Please proceed with your questions.

Aleksey Yefremov: Thanks. Good morning. There's a number of price increases that were announced in the polymers world. I wanted to ask you about your expectations for achieving those. And also, is the intent here to offset rising raw material costs or actually expand margins? Thank you.

Speaker #10: Thanks. Good morning. There are a number of price increases that were announced in the polymers world. I wanted to ask you about your expectations for achieving those.

Speaker #10: And also, is the intent here to offset rising raw material costs or actually expend margins? Thank you.

Speaker #2: Yeah. I mean, some of these polymers Alexei, i, margins have got to where they're at unsustainable levels. And I think you can look at challenges we've seen in the industry and you've seen some folks in the marketplace go into default.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, in some of these polymers, Aleksey, you know, margins have got to where, you know, they're at unsustainable levels. And I think you can look at, you know, challenges we've seen in the industry, and, you know, you've seen, you know, some folks in the marketplace, go into default. And, you know, I think that has just shown that, you know, things are at an unsustainable level. I'm proud of the way the team, you know, got ahead of this a few years ago by taking action in our footprint, in our highest cost locations, and so that has, you know, certainly helped us be able to weather that storm. But, you know, as we go forward, you know, the returns need to improve here.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, in some of these polymers, Aleksey, you know, margins have got to where, you know, they're at unsustainable levels. And I think you can look at, you know, challenges we've seen in the industry, and, you know, you've seen, you know, some folks in the marketplace, go into default. And, you know, I think that has just shown that, you know, things are at an unsustainable level. I'm proud of the way the team, you know, got ahead of this a few years ago by taking action in our footprint, in our highest cost locations, and so that has, you know, certainly helped us be able to weather that storm. But, you know, as we go forward, you know, the returns need to improve here.

Speaker #2: And I think that has just shown that things are at an unsustainable level. I'm proud of the way the team got ahead of this a few years ago by taking action in our footprint in our highest-cost locations.

Speaker #2: And so that has certainly helped us be able to weather that storm. But as we go forward, the returns need to improve here. And so it really is about pushing to drive returns to just an acceptable level going forward.

Bill Cunningham: And so it really is about, you know, pushing to drive returns to just an acceptable level going forward, and, you know, the team continues to push that. You know, I do think it's going to continue to be a... It's gonna take some time. It's gonna be a step-by-step process. I wouldn't expect us to get all of it at once, but, you know, it is about continuing to work this, you know, as we are having dialogue with our customers.

Scott Richardson: And so it really is about, you know, pushing to drive returns to just an acceptable level going forward, and, you know, the team continues to push that. You know, I do think it's going to continue to be a... It's gonna take some time. It's gonna be a step-by-step process. I wouldn't expect us to get all of it at once, but, you know, it is about continuing to work this, you know, as we are having dialogue with our customers.

Speaker #2: And the team continues to push that. I do think it's going to continue to be a it's going to take some time. It's going to be a step-by-step process.

Speaker #2: I wouldn't expect us to get all of it at once, but it is about continuing to work this as we are having dialogue with our customers.

Speaker #10: Thank you. And as a follow-up, acetyl spreads have been a little better in China lately. What are your expectations for anti-involution or any kind of rationalization in that country, just based on your knowledge of what the government might be thinking?

Aleksey Yefremov: Thank you. And as a follow-up, acetyl spreads have been a little better in China lately. What, what are your expectations for anti-inflation or, or any kind of, rationalization in that country, just based on your knowledge of what, what government might be thinking?

Speaker #2: Yeah. As I mentioned before, I mean, we've gone through big overcapacity in the acetyl business in China in the past. When I was living there, in 2009, the first overcapacity came in, and we were in that period for a long time.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, as I mentioned before, I mean, we've gone through, you know, big overcapacity in the acetyl business in China in the past. You know, when I was living there, you know, in 2009, we, you know, the first overcapacity, you know, came in, and we were in that period for a long time. You know, I think, you know, the pattern of behavior that we've seen over the last year or so, you know, does kind of tend to trend with what we saw in the past, which is, you know, new capacity comes in. There was a lot of new capacity over the last couple of years.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, as I mentioned before, I mean, we've gone through, you know, big overcapacity in the acetyl business in China in the past. You know, when I was living there, you know, in 2009, we, you know, the first overcapacity, you know, came in, and we were in that period for a long time. You know, I think, you know, the pattern of behavior that we've seen over the last year or so, you know, does kind of tend to trend with what we saw in the past, which is, you know, new capacity comes in. There was a lot of new capacity over the last couple of years.

Speaker #2: I think the pattern of behavior that we've seen over the last year or so does kind of tend to trend with what we saw in the past, which is new capacity comes in.

Speaker #2: There was a lot of new capacity over the last couple of years. As those plants are starting up, they run at high rates to prove out the technology.

Bill Cunningham: As those plants are starting up, you know, they run at high rates to prove out the technology, but, you know, margins are unsustainable, and so rates come back down, and, you know, margins move up a little bit. And so we certainly have seen that trend continue, and things have stabilized, I'd say, you know, at higher, albeit still relatively low levels on a margin basis, over the last eight weeks or so. So, you know, we're not, you know, forecasting, you know, huge lifts by any stretch of the imagination. And, you know, the team will continue to kind of work, you know, near term and instantaneous opportunities on both a price and volume basis.

Scott Richardson: As those plants are starting up, you know, they run at high rates to prove out the technology, but, you know, margins are unsustainable, and so rates come back down, and, you know, margins move up a little bit. And so we certainly have seen that trend continue, and things have stabilized, I'd say, you know, at higher, albeit still relatively low levels on a margin basis, over the last eight weeks or so. So, you know, we're not, you know, forecasting, you know, huge lifts by any stretch of the imagination. And, you know, the team will continue to kind of work, you know, near term and instantaneous opportunities on both a price and volume basis.

Speaker #2: But margins are unsustainable. And so rates come back down, and margins move up a little bit. And so we certainly have seen that trend continue, and things have stabilized, I'd say, at higher, albeit still relatively low levels on a margin basis.

Speaker #2: Over the last eight weeks or so, we're not forecasting huge lifts by any stretch of the imagination. The team will continue to work on near-term and instantaneous opportunities, both on a price and volume basis.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Frank Mitch with Fermium Research. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Frank Mitsch with Fermium Research. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #11: Hi, guys. Good morning. It's Aziza on for Frank. Scott, I was curious if maybe you can provide some thoughts on Chinese acetyl's pricing as we progress through 2026?

Frank Mitsch: Hi, guys. Good morning. It's Aziza on for Frank. Scott, I was curious if maybe you can provide some thoughts on, you know, Chinese acetyls pricing as we progress through 2026.

Aziza Gazieva: Hi, guys. Good morning. It's Aziza on for Frank. Scott, I was curious if maybe you can provide some thoughts on, you know, Chinese acetyls pricing as we progress through 2026.

Speaker #2: Yeah. Aziza, I mean, look, we're not going to forecast any huge uplifts. I think we would expect things to stay in the range they've been over the last several quarters.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, Aziza, I mean, look, we're not gonna forecast any huge uplifts. I think, you know, we would expect things to stay in the range they've been over the last several quarters. I mean, plus or minus, kind of where they, kind of-- Ben, as I just said, you know, we've kind of stabilized at these levels over the last eight weeks or so. You know, demand right now is extremely low, as we're in Chinese New Year. This year's Lunar New Year is a longer holiday than what we typically see by a few extra days. It'll be interesting to see how things come out. It's a later New Year as well. Certainly, demand was relatively stable going into the New Year holiday.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, Aziza, I mean, look, we're not gonna forecast any huge uplifts. I think, you know, we would expect things to stay in the range they've been over the last several quarters. I mean, plus or minus, kind of where they, kind of-- Ben, as I just said, you know, we've kind of stabilized at these levels over the last eight weeks or so. You know, demand right now is extremely low, as we're in Chinese New Year. This year's Lunar New Year is a longer holiday than what we typically see by a few extra days. It'll be interesting to see how things come out. It's a later New Year as well. Certainly, demand was relatively stable going into the New Year holiday.

Speaker #2: I mean, plus or minus kind of where they kind of been as I just said, we've kind of stabilized at these levels over the last eight weeks or so.

Speaker #2: Demand right now is extremely low as we're in Chinese New Year. And this year's Lunar New Year is a longer holiday than what we typically see by a few extra days.

Speaker #2: So it'd be interesting to see how things come out. It's a later New Year as well. But certainly, demand was relatively stable going into the New Year holiday.

Speaker #2: Pricing held, and that doesn't always happen. Sometimes, as you're getting into that New Year period, pricing falls off. It stayed relatively stable as we went in.

Bill Cunningham: Pricing held, and that doesn't always happen. You know, sometimes as you're getting into that New Year period, pricing falls off. It stayed relatively stable as we went in. So, you know, we'll see kind of where things come out, but we are not anticipating, you know, really big uplift coming from Asia. As we look at, you know, recovery scenarios in the acetyl business, you know, we tend to really look at Western Hemisphere only. And so, you know, those numbers I quoted earlier about a 1% improvement in volume being $15 to 20 million, that's on Western Hemisphere only.

Scott Richardson: Pricing held, and that doesn't always happen. You know, sometimes as you're getting into that New Year period, pricing falls off. It stayed relatively stable as we went in. So, you know, we'll see kind of where things come out, but we are not anticipating, you know, really big uplift coming from Asia. As we look at, you know, recovery scenarios in the acetyl business, you know, we tend to really look at Western Hemisphere only. And so, you know, those numbers I quoted earlier about a 1% improvement in volume being $15 to 20 million, that's on Western Hemisphere only.

Speaker #2: So we'll see kind of where things come out. But we are not anticipating really big uplift coming from Asia. As we look at recovery scenarios in the acetyl business, we tend to really look at Western Hemisphere only.

Speaker #2: And so those numbers I quoted earlier, about a 1% improvement in volume being $15 to $20 million, that's on Western Hemisphere only. That doesn't include any of the business in China.

Bill Cunningham: That doesn't include any of the business in China, just because I think with where overcapacity is, if we get upside in volume and price, we'll take it, but, you know, we're not going to necessarily bake that into our numbers.

Scott Richardson: That doesn't include any of the business in China, just because I think with where overcapacity is, if we get upside in volume and price, we'll take it, but, you know, we're not going to necessarily bake that into our numbers.

Speaker #2: Just because I think, with where overcapacity is, if we get upside on volume and price, we'll take it. But we're not going to necessarily bake that into our numbers.

Speaker #11: Got it. And also, regarding the second quarter POM turnaround, have you guys quantified the impact to the second quarter earnings?

Frank Mitsch: Got it. And also, regarding the second quarter POM turnaround, have you guys quantified the impact to the second quarter earnings?

Aziza Gazieva: Got it. And also, regarding the second quarter POM turnaround, have you guys quantified the impact to the second quarter earnings?

Speaker #2: No. I mean, what we said earlier is, think of a number similar to the lift in that we called out of $30 million. So that's the right range.

Bill Cunningham: No. I mean, what we said earlier is think a number similar to the lift in that we called out of $30 million. So that's you know the right range. I mean, these. Yeah, typically, these turnarounds in the past were about every three or so years. You know, we've we've worked really hard you know on our reliability over the last several years to where you know we've been able to extend this to five years between these major turnarounds. So you know this is you know not something that certainly happens every year in the asset. And you know so it is a little bit larger than we would typically see but it really is contained to Q2.

Scott Richardson: No. I mean, what we said earlier is think a number similar to the lift in that we called out of $30 million. So that's you know the right range. I mean, these. Yeah, typically, these turnarounds in the past were about every three or so years. You know, we've we've worked really hard you know on our reliability over the last several years to where you know we've been able to extend this to five years between these major turnarounds. So you know this is you know not something that certainly happens every year in the asset. And you know so it is a little bit larger than we would typically see but it really is contained to Q2.

Speaker #2: I mean, typically, these turnarounds in the past were about every three or so years. We've worked really hard on our reliability over the last several years to where we've been able to extend this to five years between these major turnarounds.

Speaker #2: So this is not something that certainly happens every year. In the asset, and so it is a little bit larger than we would typically see.

Speaker #2: But it really is contained to the second quarter.

Speaker #11: Got it. Thank you.

Arun Viswanathan: Got it. Thank you.

Aziza Gazieva: Got it. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Hassan Ahmed with Alembic Global. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Hassan Ahmed with Alembic Global. Please proceed with your questions.

Hassan Ahmed: Good morning, Scott and Chuck. Look, I wanted to revisit the $650 to 750 million free cash flow guidance you guys provided. Look, I mean, you know, it's anyone's guess what demand does, but you know, if we were to take a draconian view and say that demand really doesn't improve much from Q4 levels, you know, what does that do to the guidance, you know, and all the other aspects baked into it? Meaning, you know, the $100 million sort of working capital uplift that you guys guided to and the like.

Speaker #10: Morning, Scott and Chuck. Look, I wanted to revisit the 650 to 750 million free cash flow guidance you guys provided. Look, I mean, it's anyone's guess what demand does, but if we were to take a draconian view and say that demand really doesn't improve much from Q4 levels, what does that do to the guidance and all the other aspects baked into it?

Speaker #10: Meaning, the 100 million sort of working capital uplift, that you guys guided to and the like.

Speaker #2: Yeah. First of all, Hassan, I would never refer to you as draconian by any stretch of the imagination. So look, not to be repetitive, but I'm going to kind of go back.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah. First of all, Hassan, I would never refer to you as draconian by any stretch of the imagination. So, look, I not to be repetitive, but I'm gonna kind of go back. You know, we model out a lot of different scenarios, kind of that low demand scenario, higher demand scenarios. I mean, we kind of look at different permutations. You also have to plot timing. And so as we kind of look at that, you know, you end up range finding for, you know, where you think you can, you move on cash flow, given the other actions that you can take, and how, you know, AR and inventory can move and what you can do through the year.

Scott Richardson: Yeah. First of all, Hassan, I would never refer to you as draconian by any stretch of the imagination. So, look, I not to be repetitive, but I'm gonna kind of go back. You know, we model out a lot of different scenarios, kind of that low demand scenario, higher demand scenarios. I mean, we kind of look at different permutations. You also have to plot timing. And so as we kind of look at that, you know, you end up range finding for, you know, where you think you can, you move on cash flow, given the other actions that you can take, and how, you know, AR and inventory can move and what you can do through the year.

Speaker #2: We model out a lot of different scenarios. Kind of that low-demand scenario, higher-demand scenarios. I mean, we kind of look at different permutations. We also have to plot timing.

Speaker #2: And so, as we kind of look at that, you end up rangefinding for where you think you can move on cash flow, given the other actions that you can take.

Speaker #2: And how AR and inventory can move and what you can do through the year. And so, as we kind of rangefind for that, we do feel very confident in that $650 to $750 range that we put out there.

Bill Cunningham: So, you know, as we kind of range find for that, you know, we do feel very confident in that $650 to 750 range that we put out there.

Scott Richardson: So, you know, as we kind of range find for that, you know, we do feel very confident in that $650 to 750 range that we put out there.

Speaker #10: Understood. Understood. And just moving on, again, as it relates to debt paydowns and the like, I mean, you guys seem pretty comfortable with the incremental $500 million or so of asset sales. So, A, what gives you that comfort to achieve that by 2027?

Hassan Ahmed: Understood. Understood. And just moving on, again, you know, as it relates to sort of you know, debt paydowns and the like, I mean, you guys seem pretty comfortable with the incremental $500 million of sort of asset sales. You know, so A, what gives you that comfort to achieve that by 2027? And B, if need be, could that number actually be higher?

Speaker #10: And B, if need be, could that number actually be higher?

Speaker #2: Yeah. I mean, we're aggressively pursuing additional divestitures, and Scott mentioned we feel good about getting another one of those done. There's a lot of things that we can look at.

Chuck Kyrish: Yeah. I mean, we're aggressively pursuing, you know, additional divestitures. And Scott, as Scott mentioned, we feel good about, you know, getting another one of those done. There's a lot of things that we can look at. You know, that's part of our, of our cash generation, that's part of our debt paydown strategy. You know, that's a probability weighted number, so theoretically, that could end up at a higher number. But, we're targeting right now $1 billion total by the end of 2027 to help us deleverage the balance sheet.

Speaker #2: That's part of our cash generation. That's part of our debt paydown strategy. That's a probability-weighted number. So theoretically, that could end up at a higher number.

Speaker #2: But we're targeting right now a billion dollars total by the end of 2027 to help us deleverage the balance sheet.

Speaker #10: Very helpful. Thank you so much.

Hassan Ahmed: Very helpful. Thank you so much.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Michael Sasan with Wells Fargo. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Michael Sison with Wells Fargo. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #12: Hey, guys. Sorry about that. You sort of noted that the Western Hemisphere acetyl margins are better or holding up better. How much of your business is Eastern, and is there any reason to be there longer term?

Michael Sison: Hey, guys, sorry about that. You know, you sort of noted that the Western Hemisphere acetyl margins are better or holding up better. You know, how much of your business is Eastern, and is there any reason to be there longer term? I mean, this trough in the Eastern Hemisphere has been pretty, pretty deep. You know, does it make sense to reduce some capacity, you know, for that area longer term?

Speaker #12: I mean, does trough in the Eastern Hemisphere has been pretty deep. Does it make sense to reduce some capacity for that area longer term?

Bill Cunningham: You know, Mike, you've known us for a long time. You know that, you know, we look at every option on the table, and, and we continue to look at what, the short-term needs of the business are and balance that with where we think we need to be long term. And, you know, we will look at what the footprint in both businesses, you know, needs to look like and what the, the right match is. So, you know, I would say we're constantly, you know, evaluating, you know, where we need to be and, and how we need to be operating the assets. And, and, you know, the acetyl team continues to pivot there.

Speaker #2: Mike, you've known us for a long time. You know that we look at every option on the table. And we continue to look at what the short-term needs of the business are and balance that with where we think we need to be long-term.

Speaker #2: And we will look at what the footprint in both businesses needs to look like and what the right match is. So I would say we're constantly evaluating where we need to be and how we need to be operating the assets.

Speaker #2: And the Acetyl team continues to pivot there. We’re block operating the Frankfurt BAM unit and block operating the Singapore acetic acid unit as well.

Bill Cunningham: You know, we're block operating, you know, the Frankfurt VAM unit and block operating the Singapore, you know, acetic acid unit as well, and just for that very purpose, and finding ways at which to be more efficient and squeeze out costs.

Scott Richardson: You know, we're block operating, you know, the Frankfurt VAM unit and block operating the Singapore, you know, acetic acid unit as well, and just for that very purpose, and finding ways at which to be more efficient and squeeze out costs.

Speaker #2: And just for that very purpose. And finding ways at which to be more efficient and squeeze out costs.

Speaker #12: Got it. And then if you take a look as we head into the second half and we sort of sat here last year, thinking things couldn't get worse.

Michael Sison: Got it. And then, you know, if you, if you take a look as we head into the second half, and we sort of sat here last year thinking things couldn't get worse. But if, if there are areas within EM or the Acetyl Chain that, that could get worse, what do you think it could be? And it, it does sound like things are more stable, sequentially at least. But, you know, what are the things we need to watch out for if, if things could potentially get worse on the macro side for you?

Speaker #12: But if there were areas within EM or the acetyl chain that could get worse, what do you think it could be? And it does sound like things are more stable sequentially, at least.

Speaker #12: But what are the things we need to watch out for if things could potentially get worse on the macro side for you?

Speaker #2: Mike, we're not going to take anything for granted. And we're going to continue to evaluate and take bold actions across the portfolio. We knew as we started last year, that we needed to kind of reset the growth mindset and engineer materials.

Bill Cunningham: Mike, we're not gonna take anything for granted, and we're gonna continue to evaluate, take bold actions, you know, across the portfolio. We knew, you know, as we started last year, that we needed to kind of reset the growth mindset in Engineered Materials. And I feel like Todd Elliott and the team have done a great job of building the pipeline and refocusing commercially on those areas where we can really drive high-quality wins, and making sure our time is being spent there, with a focus on quality over quantity. And I think that is really gonna start to pay off for us, as we work our way through 2026.

Scott Richardson: Mike, we're not gonna take anything for granted, and we're gonna continue to evaluate, take bold actions, you know, across the portfolio. We knew, you know, as we started last year, that we needed to kind of reset the growth mindset in Engineered Materials. And I feel like Todd Elliott and the team have done a great job of building the pipeline and refocusing commercially on those areas where we can really drive high-quality wins, and making sure our time is being spent there, with a focus on quality over quantity. And I think that is really gonna start to pay off for us, as we work our way through 2026.

Speaker #2: And I feel like Todd Elliott and the team have done a great job of building the pipeline and refocusing commercially on those areas where we can really drive high-quality wins.

Speaker #2: And making sure our time is being spent there with a focus on quality over quantity. And I think that is really going to start to pay off for us as we work our way through 2026.

Speaker #2: And we're going to continue to evaluate the cost side of the equation in both businesses. As well as from a corporate perspective. Because I do think it is really about how we generate operating leverage going forward.

Bill Cunningham: And we're gonna continue to evaluate the cost side of the equation in both businesses, as well as from a corporate perspective, because I do think it is really about how we generate, you know, operating leverage going forward. And so those are our priorities, with cash as being kind of that keen focus and delivery of our cash target.

Scott Richardson: And we're gonna continue to evaluate the cost side of the equation in both businesses, as well as from a corporate perspective, because I do think it is really about how we generate, you know, operating leverage going forward. And so those are our priorities, with cash as being kind of that keen focus and delivery of our cash target.

Speaker #2: And so those are our priorities. With cash as being kind of that keen focus and delivery of our cash target.

Speaker #12: Great. Thank you.

Josh Spector: ... Great. Thank you.

Michael Sison: ... Great. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Kevin McCarthy with the Vertical Research Partners. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of Kevin McCarthy with Vertical Research Partners. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #13: Yes. Thank you and good morning. Scott, in explaining the volume decline of 6% in the quarter, I think you mentioned in the prepared remarks last night that the D-stocking and seasonality were kind of greater than expected.

Kevin McCarthy: Yeah, thank you, and good morning. Scott, in explaining the volume decline of 6% in the quarter, I think you mentioned in the prepared remarks last night that the destocking and seasonality were kind of greater than expected. And so I wonder if you could comment on the degree to which you've seen any rebound or, or, you know, temporary restocking in January and early February ahead of the Lunar New Year, or has it been mixed or, or just not happening? Just looking for any additional color on, you know, kind of incremental volume stability or improvement as you see it.

Speaker #13: And so, I wonder if you could comment on the degree to which you've seen any rebound or temporary restocking in January and early February ahead of the Lunar New Year?

Speaker #13: Or has it been mixed? Or just not happening? Just looking for any additional color on kind of incremental volume stability or improvement as you see it.

Speaker #2: Yeah. Let me start with acetyl chain. I think we've seen some moderate seasonal improvement, largely in the coating space. And we'll see kind of where things hunt out as we get into March and April, which tends to be when demand moves up higher.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, let me start with acetyl chain. I think, you know, we've seen, you know, some, some moderate seasonal improvement, largely in the coatings space, and we'll see kind of where things, you know, pan out as we get into March and April, which tends to be, you know, when, when demand, you know, moves up higher. So I would say that it's, it's moderate at this point. We haven't seen substantial change, positively in, in the acetate tow, side of the equation there in acetyls. You know, in engineered materials, what we called out last quarter was that we, we knew we were gonna see, you know, some destocking from our, our channel partners there in the Americas. You know, we're starting to see that, come back to the order book.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, let me start with acetyl chain. I think, you know, we've seen, you know, some, some moderate seasonal improvement, largely in the coatings space, and we'll see kind of where things, you know, pan out as we get into March and April, which tends to be, you know, when, when demand, you know, moves up higher. So I would say that it's, it's moderate at this point. We haven't seen substantial change, positively in, in the acetate tow, side of the equation there in acetyls. You know, in engineered materials, what we called out last quarter was that we, we knew we were gonna see, you know, some destocking from our, our channel partners there in the Americas. You know, we're starting to see that, come back to the order book.

Speaker #2: So I would say that it's moderate at this point. We haven't seen substantial change positively in the acetate toe side of the equation there in acetyls.

Speaker #2: In Engineered Materials, what we called out last quarter was that we knew we were going to see some destocking from our channel partners here in the Americas.

Speaker #2: We're starting to see that come back to the order book, and we've seen seasonal improvement in spaces like automotive in the Western Hemisphere improve to start the quarter.

Bill Cunningham: And we've seen, you know, seasonal improvement in spaces like automotive in the Western Hemisphere, you know, to start the quarter. So that is pretty much as expected, and as is typical, you know, as we see from Q4 to Q1.

Scott Richardson: And we've seen, you know, seasonal improvement in spaces like automotive in the Western Hemisphere, you know, to start the quarter. So that is pretty much as expected, and as is typical, you know, as we see from Q4 to Q1.

Speaker #2: So that is pretty much as expected and as is typical. As we see from Q4 to Q1.

Speaker #13: Okay. And then to follow up on your divestiture efforts, it sounds like the focus or at least one of the focus areas would be your joint ventures you've got quite a few of them.

Kevin McCarthy: Okay. And then, to follow up on your divestiture efforts, sounds like the focus, or at least one of the focus areas, would be your joint ventures. You've got quite a few of them, I think. Maybe can you provide any color, as to where you are, in that process, and whether or not we might expect something this year or more likely next year? Are you looking at multiple JVs or focusing on, on a primary target? Any color there would be helpful.

Speaker #13: I think—maybe can you provide any color as to where you are in that process, and whether or not we might expect something this year, or more likely next year?

Speaker #13: Are you looking at multiple JVs or focusing on a primary target? Any color there would be helpful.

Speaker #2: Yeah. What I would tell you, Kevin, is we are looking at a lot of different things. And we have a pretty robust portfolio of options of varying sizes.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, what I would tell you, Kevin, is we are looking at a lot of different things, and we have a pretty robust portfolio of options of varying sizes. You know, some small, some, you know, getting a little closer to the size of Micromax. And, you know, as Chuck mentioned earlier, we probability weight that. You know, we feel good about getting another deal done here in 2026. I don't know exactly, you know, where it will fall in the size spectrum. It might be a smaller one, but certainly would be attractive even if it's small. So, you know, we are kind of working all elements. It may be that, you know, it takes a few of these deals to get to the target, and maybe, you know, it takes one deal.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, what I would tell you, Kevin, is we are looking at a lot of different things, and we have a pretty robust portfolio of options of varying sizes. You know, some small, some, you know, getting a little closer to the size of Micromax. And, you know, as Chuck mentioned earlier, we probability weight that. You know, we feel good about getting another deal done here in 2026. I don't know exactly, you know, where it will fall in the size spectrum. It might be a smaller one, but certainly would be attractive even if it's small. So, you know, we are kind of working all elements. It may be that, you know, it takes a few of these deals to get to the target, and maybe, you know, it takes one deal.

Speaker #2: Some small, some getting a little closer to the size of Micromax. And as Chuck mentioned earlier, we probability-weight that. We feel good about getting another deal done here in 2026.

Speaker #2: I don't know exactly where it will fall in the size spectrum. It might be a smaller one. But certainly would be attractive, even if it's small.

Speaker #2: So, we are kind of working all elements. It may be that it takes a few of these deals to get to the target. And maybe it takes one deal.

Speaker #2: So it kind of depends upon how these things materialize here over the course of the next year and a half.

Bill Cunningham: So it just kind of depends upon how these things materialize here over the course of the next, you know, year and a half.

Speaker #13: Thanks very much.

Kevin McCarthy: Thanks very much.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question is coming from the line of Josh Spector with UBS. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question is coming from the line of Josh Spector with UBS. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #14: Yeah, hi. Good morning. I want to just ask about the earnings and Engineered Materials. If I kind of take your comments on the first half, your EBIT is maybe around $200 million a quarter on average.

Josh Spector: Yeah. Hi, good morning. I wanna just ask on the earnings in engineered materials, if I kind of take your comments on first half, you know, your, your EBIT is maybe around $200 million a quarter on average. You know, looking at last year, kind of similar levels to what we saw in Q2, Q3. I'm obviously ignoring seasonality in the weaker Q1 a year ago. But, I'm just wondering that, you know, we're not seeing some of the cost initiatives really come through. You're talking about them more second half, but you've been talking about the cost initiatives for, you know, six, nine months now. So why aren't we seeing it as much in the first half? And why does it take to the second half, on the cadence of timing?

Speaker #14: Looking at last year, it's kind of similar levels to what we saw in 2Q, 3Q. I'm obviously ignoring seasonality and the weaker 1Q a year ago.

Speaker #14: But I'm just wondering that we're not seeing some of the cost initiatives really come through. You're talking about them more second half. But you've been talking about the cost initiatives for six, nine months now.

Speaker #14: So, why aren't we seeing it as much in the first half? And why does it take until the second half? On the cadence of timing, and then when you talk about the new products and the higher margins, kind of the same thing.

Josh Spector: And then, when you talk about the new products and the higher margins, kind of the same thing, like, when do we start to really see more of this, and, and why not now?

Speaker #14: When do we start to really see more of this? And why not now?

Speaker #2: Yeah, Josh, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. I think you're definitely seeing it roll through. We are in a much lower demand environment today in that business than where we were in the middle part of last year.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, Josh, I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you. I think you're definitely seeing it roll through. You know, we are in a much lower demand environment today in that business than where we were in the middle part of last year, and, you know, we're still performing at very similar levels. And that really is coming from the mix improvement we've seen, as well as the cost reductions the business is taking, and we're gonna continue to drive that forward. As I said, you know, the-- there's such a leverage on volume in this business, you know, with a 1% change kind of being $5+ million a quarter. You know, the amount of change that we've seen in that business is sizable on a year-over-year basis, volumetrically.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, Josh, I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you. I think you're definitely seeing it roll through. You know, we are in a much lower demand environment today in that business than where we were in the middle part of last year, and, you know, we're still performing at very similar levels. And that really is coming from the mix improvement we've seen, as well as the cost reductions the business is taking, and we're gonna continue to drive that forward. As I said, you know, the-- there's such a leverage on volume in this business, you know, with a 1% change kind of being $5+ million a quarter. You know, the amount of change that we've seen in that business is sizable on a year-over-year basis, volumetrically.

Speaker #2: And it was still performing at very similar levels. And that really is coming from the mix improvement we've seen, as well as the cost reductions the business is taking.

Speaker #2: And we're going to continue to drive that forward. As I said, the there's such a leverage on volume in this business with a 1% change kind of being 5-plus million dollars a quarter.

Speaker #2: The amount of change that we've seen in that business is sizable on a year-over-year basis volumetrically. So it really is about continuing to improve the underlying fundamentals of this business and those small incremental changes in the demand are going to flow right back to the bottom line.

Bill Cunningham: So it really is about, you know, continuing to improve the underlying fundamentals of this business, and those small incremental changes in the demand are gonna flow right back to the bottom line.

Scott Richardson: So it really is about, you know, continuing to improve the underlying fundamentals of this business, and those small incremental changes in the demand are gonna flow right back to the bottom line.

Josh Spector: Thank you, Scott. Appreciate the thoughts.

Speaker #14: Thank you, Scott. Appreciate the thoughts.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of John Roberts with Mizuho. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question has come from the line of John Roberts with Mizuho. Please proceed with your questions.

John Roberts: Thank you. Have you actually guided for the China's CTO dividend expected for the final three quarters of 2026 in your, in your free cash flow range?

Speaker #15: Thank you. Have you actually guided for the China SIGTO dividend expected for the final three quarters of 2026? In your free cash flow range?

John Roberts: Thank you. Have you actually guided for the China's CTO dividend expected for the final three quarters of 2026 in your, in your free cash flow range?

Speaker #2: Yeah. John, think pretty flat to last year. Is what to expect. That 40-ish million dollars a quarter.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, John, think pretty flat to last year is what to expect, that $40-ish million a quarter.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, John, think pretty flat to last year is what to expect, that $40-ish million a quarter.

Speaker #15: Okay. And then you once explored some consolidation opportunities in the SIGTO industry. Does the contraction have you revisiting further consolidation, maybe in a different form or with a different partner than what you earlier pursued?

John Roberts: Okay. And then, you once explored some consolidation opportunities in the acetate tow industry. Does the contraction in the industry increase the chance of revisiting further consolidation, maybe in a different form or different partner than what you earlier pursued?

Speaker #2: Yeah. I don't know that the landscape has changed. Considerably. John, overall, in terms of the fundamentals, but look, we are always very open to options in all of our businesses.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, I don't know that the landscape has changed considerably... John, overall, in terms of the fundamentals. But you know, look, we are always very open to options in all of our businesses. And so, you know, we explore every opportunity that might be out there. But I think on tow, I just don't know that the fundamentals have changed enough to change that outcome.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, I don't know that the landscape has changed considerably... John, overall, in terms of the fundamentals. But you know, look, we are always very open to options in all of our businesses. And so, you know, we explore every opportunity that might be out there. But I think on tow, I just don't know that the fundamentals have changed enough to change that outcome.

Speaker #2: And so, we explore every opportunity that might be out there. But I think on TOE, I just don't know that the fundamentals have changed enough to change that outcome.

Bill Cunningham: Thank you.

John Roberts: Thank you.

Operator: Daryl, we'll make the next question our last one, please.

Scott Richardson: Daryl, we'll make the next question our last one, please.

Speaker #16: Sarah, we'll make the next question our last one, please.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our last questions will come from the line of Arun Viswanathan with RBC Capital Markets. Please proceed with your questions.

Bill Cunningham: Thank you. Our last questions will come from the line of Arun Viswanathan with RBC Capital Markets. Please proceed with your questions.

Operator: Thank you. Our last questions will come from the line of Arun Viswanathan with RBC Capital Markets. Please proceed with your questions.

Speaker #17: Hi. Good morning. This is Adam on for Arun. Thanks for taking our question, if I could ask maybe Hasan and Gancham's question in another way.

Arun Viswanathan: Hi, good morning. This is Adam on for Arun. Thanks for taking our question. If I could ask maybe Hassan and Gansham's question in another way. It seems like, you know, the working capital management change for 2026 is almost a $300 million headwind. And you talked about, you know, some benefits from lower cash, about $25, taxes lower by $40 to 50. Is the balance of that from earnings improvement? And if not, where is that coming from? And how much earnings improvement are you really expecting to impact to free cash flow? Thanks.

Speaker #17: It seems like the working capital management change for '26 is almost a $300 million headwind. And you talked about some benefits from lower cash in '25, with taxes lower by $40 to $50 million.

Speaker #17: Is the balance of that from earnings improvement? And if not, where's that coming from? And how much earnings improvement are you really expecting to impact a free cash flow?

Speaker #17: Thanks.

Speaker #2: Yeah, thanks, Adam. Yeah, you're right. I mean, the working capital headwind year over year is sizable. Then some other things that a lot said, as you mentioned.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah. Thanks, Adam. Yeah, you're right. I mean, the working capital headwind year over year is sizable, and some other things that'll offset it, as you mentioned. But again, I'll say again, we feel good about driving free cash flow into that range, either through modest earnings or through further levers if we see a lower demand scenario play out. It's very similar to what we did this year in 2025, so we're confident in that range.

Scott Richardson: Yeah. Thanks, Adam. Yeah, you're right. I mean, the working capital headwind year over year is sizable, and some other things that'll offset it, as you mentioned. But again, I'll say again, we feel good about driving free cash flow into that range, either through modest earnings or through further levers if we see a lower demand scenario play out. It's very similar to what we did this year in 2025, so we're confident in that range.

Speaker #2: But again, I'll say again, we feel good about driving free cash flow into that range, either through modest earnings or through further levers if we see a lower demand scenario play out.

Speaker #2: It's very similar to what we did this year in 2025, so we're confident in that range.

Speaker #3: Okay. Great. And apologies if I've missed this, but have you guys outlined in terms of a cost benefit from the line of enclosure, kind of market impacts aside?

Arun Viswanathan: Okay, great. And apologies if I've missed this, but have you guys outlined, in terms of a cost benefit from the Lanaken closure, you know, kind of market impacts aside?

Speaker #2: Yeah. So, line of enclosure for us is going to be about a $20 to $25 million cost benefit on a full-year basis. And about $5 to $10 million of that, we expect to get this year.

Bill Cunningham: Yeah, so Lanaken closure for us is gonna be about a $20 to 25 million cost benefit on a full year basis, and about $5 to 10 of that we expect to get this year.

Scott Richardson: Yeah, so Lanaken closure for us is gonna be about a $20 to 25 million cost benefit on a full year basis, and about $5 to 10 of that we expect to get this year.

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Arun Viswanathan: Thank you.

Speaker #16: Well, thank you, everyone. We'd like to thank everyone for listening in to today's call. And as always, we're available after the call for any follow-up questions.

Bill Cunningham: Well, thank you, everyone. You know, we'd like to thank everyone for listening in to today's call. As always, we're available after the call for any follow-up questions. Daryl, with that, let's please go ahead and close out the call.

Scott Richardson: Well, thank you, everyone. You know, we'd like to thank everyone for listening in to today's call. As always, we're available after the call for any follow-up questions. Daryl, with that, let's please go ahead and close out the call.

Speaker #16: Daryl, with that, let's please go ahead and close out the call.

Operator: Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time. We appreciate your participation. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Q4 2025 Celanese Corp Earnings Call

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