Q4 2025 Sienna Senior Living Inc Earnings Call

February 20, 2026

Speaker #2: The company does not undertake to update any forward-looking statement or information. Please refer to the forward-looking information and risk factor section in the company's public filings, including its most recent MD&A and AIF.

Operator: Please refer to the forward-looking information and risk factors section in the company's public filings, including its most recent MD&A and AIF for more information. You will also find a more fulsome discussion of the company's results in its MD&A and financial statements for the period, which are posted on SEDAR+ and can be found on the company's website, siennaliving.ca. Today's call is being recorded, and a replay will be available.

Speaker #2: For more information, you will also find a more fulsome discussion of the company's results in its MD&A and financial statements for the period, which are posted on Cedar Plus and can be found on the company's website.

Speaker #2: SiennaLiving.ca. Today's call is being recorded, and a replay will be available. Instructions for accessing the call are posted on the company's website, and the details are provided in the company's news release.

Operator: Instructions for accessing the call are posted on the company's website, and the details are provided in the company's news release. The company has posted slides which accompany the host marked remarks on the company website under Events and Presentations. With that, I will turn the call to Mr. Jain. Please go ahead, Mr. Jain.

Speaker #2: The company has posted slides which accompany the host remarks on the company website under Events and Presentations. With that, I will turn the call to Mr. Jain.

Speaker #2: Please go ahead, Mr. Jain. Thank you, Audra. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. 2025 was a year of long-term value creation for Sienna.

Nitin Jain: Thank you, Audra. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. 2025 was a year of long-term value creation for Sienna. We added over CAD 800 million of assets to our platform, ended the year with strong organic growth for the 12th consecutive quarter, and enhanced Sienna's balance sheet with the continued support of the capital markets. We issued nearly CAD 700 million of equity and debt, with each issuance being met with strong investor demand. We also expanded our workforce by adding approximately 2,000 team members and further deepened our impact in the communities we serve. These achievements have increased the scale and quality of Sienna's diversified platform and positioned the company well for continued growth at a compelling time in Canadian senior living. During the Q4, both operating platforms delivered strong results and continued to...

Speaker #2: We added over $800 million of assets to the platform, ended the year with strong organic growth for the 12th consecutive quarter, and enhanced Sienna's balance sheet with continued support from the capital markets.

Speaker #2: We issued nearly $700 million of equity and debt, with each issuance being met with strong investor demand. We also expanded our workforce by adding approximately 2,000 team members, and further deepened our impact in the communities we serve.

Nitin Jain: We also expanded our workforce by adding approximately 2,000 team members and further deepened our impact in the communities we serve. These achievements have increased the scale and quality of Sienna's diversified platform and positioned the company well for continued growth at a compelling time in Canadian senior living. During the Q4, both operating platforms delivered strong results and continued to...

Speaker #2: These achievements have increased the scale and quality of Sienna's diversified platform and positioned the company well for continued growth at a compelling time in Canadian senior living.

Speaker #2: During the fourth quarter, both operating platforms delivered strong results and continued to contribute to the successful finish to the year. Same property NOI increased by 15.4% in the retirement segment and by 5.6% in long-term care.

Nitin Jain: Contributed to the successful finish to the year. Same-property NOI increased by 15.4% in the retirement segment and by 5.6% in long-term care. Key driver of the double-digit increase in the retirement segment were the continued occupancy increase and rental rate growth. Average same-property occupancy was up by 180 basis points year-over-year and has reached 94.7% in Q4. Following the quarter, monthly occupancy was 95.2% in January. The result of Sienna's retirement segment also reflect higher care revenue. We apply our expertise in clinical care at our retirement platform, which allows residents to stay with us longer as their care needs change. Beyond the strong same-property performance in our retirement segment, we are pleased with the results of the company's Optimization Portfolio.

Speaker #2: Key drivers of the double-digit increase in the retirement segment were the continued occupancy increase and rental rate growth. Average same property occupancy was up by 180 basis points year over year, and has reached 94.7% in the fourth quarter. Following the quarter, monthly occupancy was 95.2% in January.

Nitin Jain: The result of Sienna's retirement segment also reflect higher care revenue. We apply our expertise in clinical care at our retirement platform, which allows residents to stay with us longer as their care needs change. Beyond the strong same-property performance in our retirement segment, we are pleased with the results of the company's Optimization Portfolio.

Speaker #2: The result of Sienna's retirement segment also reflects higher care revenue. We apply our expertise in clinical care at our retirement platform, which allows residents to stay with us longer as their care needs change.

Speaker #2: Beyond the strong same property performance in our retirement segment, we are pleased with the results of the company's optimization portfolio. This portfolio includes assets that are undergoing renovations, changes in service offerings, or the addition of new services.

Nitin Jain: This portfolio includes assets that are undergoing renovations, changes in service offerings, or the addition of new services. Occupancy increased by 790 basis points year-over-year in the Optimization Portfolio in Q4, and NOI grew by 22.1%. Our focus on better positioning assets within their local markets is clearly delivering results. Additional key driver behind the strong performance of our retirement operations are a robust sales platform and focused marketing campaigns. Year-over-year, call center leads grew by over 50% in the fourth quarter, and the number of tours in our properties have increased each quarter in 2025. We also maintain a robust focus on hospital outreach and excellent relationships with healthcare partners in the local communities where we operate. All of these initiatives are expected to drive strong lead generation and future move-ins.

Speaker #2: Occupancy increased by 790 basis points year over year in the optimization portfolio in Q4, and NOI grew by 22.1%. Our focus on better positioning assets within the local markets is clearly delivering results.

Speaker #2: Additional key drivers behind the strong performance of retirement operations are a robust sales platform and focused marketing campaigns. Year over year, call center leads grew by over 50% in the fourth quarter, and the number of tours in our properties has increased each quarter in 2025.

Nitin Jain: Year-over-year, call center leads grew by over 50% in the fourth quarter, and the number of tours in our properties have increased each quarter in 2025. We also maintain a robust focus on hospital outreach and excellent relationships with healthcare partners in the local communities where we operate. All of these initiatives are expected to drive strong lead generation and future move-ins.

Speaker #2: We also maintain a robust focus on hospital outreach and excellent relationships with healthcare partners in the local communities where we operate. All of these initiatives are expected to drive strong lead generation and future movements.

Speaker #2: With respect to Sienna's long-term care operations, fully occupied homes with growing waitlists, high revenue from private accommodations, and annual inflationary government funding increases all added to the strength of the results.

Nitin Jain: With respect to Sienna's long-term care operations, fully occupied homes with growing wait lists, high revenue from private accommodations, and annual inflationary government funding increases all added to the strength of the results. Sienna's government-funded long-term care operations add significant value to our business and provide stability, given that they are largely insulated from market volatility or economic uncertainty. Now moving to slide 6. In Q4, we started to see the contributions from 2 recently completed development projects. We opened our redeveloped long-term care community in North Bay in September, followed by our Campus of Care in Brantford in October. Large-scale development projects require deep expertise and trusted partnerships. With both in place, we're excited to move forward with our next project, which will be our first in the city of Toronto.

Speaker #2: Sienna's government-funded long-term care operations add significant value to our business and provide stability, given that they are largely insulated from market volatility or economic uncertainty.

Nitin Jain: Now moving to slide 6. In Q4, we started to see the contributions from 2 recently completed development projects. We opened our redeveloped long-term care community in North Bay in September, followed by our Campus of Care in Brantford in October. Large-scale development projects require deep expertise and trusted partnerships. With both in place, we're excited to move forward with our next project, which will be our first in the city of Toronto.

Speaker #2: Now moving to slide six, in Q4, we started to see the contributions from two recently completed development projects. We opened our redeveloped long-term care community in Northbay in September, followed by our campus of care in Branford in October.

Speaker #2: Large-scale development projects require deep expertise and trusted partnerships. With both in place, we are excited to move forward with our next project, which will be our first in the city of Toronto.

Speaker #2: Located at our existing Glenrouge site in Scarborough, it will be Sienna's largest project to date, with 448 beds and an estimated development cost of about $250 million.

Nitin Jain: Located at our existing Glen Rouge site in Scarborough, it will be Sienna's largest project to date, with 448 beds and an estimated development cost of about CAD 250 million. The development yield for this project is approximately 7.5% to 8%. After several years of planning, the significant government funding improvements for projects in the GTA were a key driver for us to move forward. The Glen Rouge redevelopment, which is expected to be completed in 2030, will replace 363 existing beds and add 85 much-needed new beds in the Scarborough community. With this development, we will further modernize and strengthen Sienna's Ontario platform and support the continued growth of the company's long-term care business. 2025 has been a very active year on the acquisition front.

Speaker #2: The development yield for this project is approximately 7.5% to 8%. After several years of planning, the significant government funding improvements for projects in the GTA were a key driver for us to move forward.

Speaker #2: The Glenrouge redevelopment, which is expected to be completed in 2030, will replace 363 existing beds and add 85 much-needed new beds in the Scarborough community.

Nitin Jain: The Glen Rouge redevelopment, which is expected to be completed in 2030, will replace 363 existing beds and add 85 much-needed new beds in the Scarborough community. With this development, we will further modernize and strengthen Sienna's Ontario platform and support the continued growth of the company's long-term care business. 2025 has been a very active year on the acquisition front.

Speaker #2: With this development, we will further modernize and strengthen Sienna's Ontario platform and support the continued growth of the company's long-term care business. 2025 has been a very active year on the acquisition front.

Speaker #2: With the acquisition of 10 properties across three provinces, we added nearly 1,800 beds and suites to our asset base. During the fourth quarter, we finalized three acquisitions in Ontario, including Kawartha Gardens, a 192-bed long-term care community, and LaSalle Park, a 123-suite retirement residence, both located in the Greater Toronto Area.

Nitin Jain: With the acquisition of 10 properties across three provinces, we added nearly 1,800 beds and suites to our asset base. During Q4, we finalized three acquisitions in Ontario, including Kawartha Gardens, a 192-bed long-term care community, LaSalle Park, a 123-suite retirement residence, both located in the Greater Toronto Area. In addition, we acquired Highgate, a 213-suite retirement residence in Waterloo, Ontario. These acquisitions added CAD 193 million of assets during the final quarter of 2025, and we carried the growth momentum into 2026. Since the beginning of the year, we added another CAD 79 million through acquisitions.

Speaker #2: In addition, we acquired Highgate, a 213-suite retirement residence in Waterloo, Ontario. These acquisitions added $193 million of assets during the final quarter of 2025, and we carried the growth momentum into 2026.

Nitin Jain: These acquisitions added CAD 193 million of assets during the final quarter of 2025, and we carried the growth momentum into 2026. Since the beginning of the year, we added another CAD 79 million through acquisitions.

Speaker #2: Since the beginning of the year, we added another $79 million through acquisitions. We finalized the purchase of interest in two of our majority-owned properties in Ontario and British Columbia, and signed a purchase agreement for The Bartlett, a 129-suite retirement residence in the Greater Toronto Area, for approximately $59.4 million, which will be financed with cash on hand.

Nitin Jain: We finalized the purchase of interest in 2 of our majority-owned properties in Ontario and British Columbia, and signed a purchase agreement for the Bartlett, a 129-suite retirement residence in the Greater Toronto Area, for approximately CAD 59.4 million, which will be financed with cash on hand. Sienna's acquisition pipeline remains strong, and we are confident to continue our significant acquisition pace in 2026. Moving to our team members. As we continue to grow, investing in Sienna's team members is fundamental to our success. With over 15,000 employees, we recognize the importance of programs that support the company's growing workforce. Sienna's strong culture of ownership and engagement played a key role in the continued reduction in turnover. Average company-wide turnover has reached record-low level of approximately 19% in 2025.

Speaker #2: Sienna's acquisition pipeline remains strong, and we are confident to continue our significant acquisition pace in 2026. Moving to our team members, as we continue to grow, investing in Sienna's team members is fundamental to our success.

Nitin Jain: As we continue to grow, investing in Sienna's team members is fundamental to our success. With over 15,000 employees, we recognize the importance of programs that support the company's growing workforce. Sienna's strong culture of ownership and engagement played a key role in the continued reduction in turnover. Average company-wide turnover has reached record-low level of approximately 19% in 2025.

Speaker #2: With over 15,000 employees, we recognize the importance of programs that support the company's growing workforce. Sienna's strong culture of ownership and engagement played a key role in the continued reduction in turnover.

Speaker #2: Average company-wide turnover has reached record levels, low of approximately 19% in 2025. Along with programs focused on team member development, recognition, and rewards, our initiatives also resulted in the fifth consecutive year of increased team member engagement and further strengthened Sienna's operations.

Nitin Jain: Along with programs focused on team member development, recognition, and rewards, our initiatives also resulted in the fifth consecutive year of increased team member engagement and further strengthened Sienna's operations. It puts us in a strong position to attract and retain the best in Canadian senior living. We are extremely proud of these achievements. They reinforce our belief that if we take good care of our team members, they will provide exceptional service to our residents and support the company's strong operating performance. Our focus on enhancing the work experience for Sienna's team members and improving resident quality of life is reflected in our most recent accreditation results from CARF, where we maintained the highest achievement status and exceeded every benchmark. This commitment is also evident in the continued improvement in the company's Net Promoter Score, which measures residents' likelihood to recommend our homes.

Speaker #2: It puts us in a strong position to attract and retain the best in Canadian senior living. We are extremely proud of these achievements; they reinforce our belief that if we take good care of our team members, they will provide exceptional service to our residents and support the company's strong operating performance.

Nitin Jain: We are extremely proud of these achievements. They reinforce our belief that if we take good care of our team members, they will provide exceptional service to our residents and support the company's strong operating performance.

Nitin Jain: Our focus on enhancing the work experience for Sienna's team members and improving resident quality of life is reflected in our most recent accreditation results from CARF, where we maintained the highest achievement status and exceeded every benchmark. This commitment is also evident in the continued improvement in the company's Net Promoter Score, which measures residents' likelihood to recommend our homes.

Speaker #2: Our focus on enhancing the work experience for Sienna's team members and improving resident quality of life is reflected in our most recent accreditation results from CARF, where we maintained the highest achievement status and exceeded every benchmark.

Speaker #2: This commitment is also evident in the continued improvement in the company's Net Promoter Score, which measures residents' likelihood to recommend our homes. Since introducing this measure at our retirement residences in 2023, scores have increased by well over 30% each and every year.

Nitin Jain: Since introducing this measure at our retirement residences in 2023, scores have increased by well over 30% each and every year. With that, I'll turn it over to David for an update on our financial results.

Speaker #2: With that, I'll turn it over to David for an update on our financial results.

Speaker #3: Thank you, Nitin, and good morning, everyone. I will start on slide 10 for financial results. In my commentary, in accordance with our MD&A disclosure, I will make reference to our operating results excluding one-time items.

David Hung: Thank you, Nitin, and good morning, everyone. I will start on slide 10 for financial results. In my commentary, in accordance with our MD&A disclosure, I will make reference to our operating results excluding one-time items. In Q4 2025, revenue on a proportionate basis increased by 14.2% year-over-year to CAD 278.4 million. This increase was largely due to occupancy and rental rate growth, as well as increased care revenue in the retirement segment. Adding to the increase were the contributions from our long-term care platform, including higher flow-through funding for direct care, increased private accommodation revenue, and additional revenue from acquisitions and developments completed in 2025.

Speaker #3: In Q4 2025, revenue on a proportionate basis increased by 14.2% year over year to $278.4 million. This increase was largely due to occupancy and rental rate growth, as well as increased care revenue in the retirement segment.

Speaker #3: Adding to the increase were the contributions from our long-term care platform, including higher flow-through funding for direct care, increased private accommodation revenue, and additional revenue from acquisitions and developments completed in 2025.

David Hung: Adding to the increase were the contributions from our long-term care platform, including higher flow-through funding for direct care, increased private accommodation revenue, and additional revenue from acquisitions and developments completed in 2025.

Speaker #3: Same property NOI increased by 10.1% to $47.4 million in Q4 2025, including by 15.4% in our retirement segment and by 5.6% in our long-term care segment.

David Hung: Same Property NOI increased by 10.1% to CAD 47.4 million in Q4 2025, including by 15.4% in our retirement segment and by 5.6% in our long-term care segment. In the retirement segment, Same Property NOI increased by CAD 3 million in Q4 2025 compared to last year, largely as a result of improved occupancy and rate growth. In addition, higher care revenue and maintaining a strict focus on operating expenses supported the year-over-year 300 basis point improvement in our Same Property operating margin. We are also making good progress with respect to our asset optimization initiatives, which included 5 assets in the company's retirement portfolio. Q4 NOI in the Optimization Portfolio increased by over 22% year-over-year compared to the same period in 2024.

Speaker #3: In the retirement segment, same property NOI increased by $3 million in Q4 2025 compared to last year, largely as a result of improved occupancy and rate growth.

Speaker #3: In addition, higher care revenue and maintaining a strict focus on operating expenses supported the year-over-year 300-basis-point improvement in our same-property operating margin.

David Hung: We are also making good progress with respect to our asset optimization initiatives, which included 5 assets in the company's retirement portfolio. Q4 NOI in the Optimization Portfolio increased by over 22% year-over-year compared to the same period in 2024.

Speaker #3: We are also making good progress with respect to our asset optimization initiatives, company's retirement portfolio. Q4 NOI in the optimization portfolio increased by over 22% year over year compared to the same period in 2024.

Speaker #3: Effective January 1, 2026, we updated the composition of the optimization portfolio and included two additional assets while returning one asset to our same property portfolio after its successful renovation.

David Hung: Effective 1 January 2026, we updated the composition of the Optimization Portfolio and included two additional assets while returning one asset to our Same Property portfolio after its successful renovation. Occupancy in this property increased from the low 80% range before its renovation to over 95% today. Based on the updated Same Property portfolio composition, average monthly occupancy reached or exceeded 95% since last September. In the long-term care segment, Same Property NOI increased by CAD 1.3 million. Continued improvements in private occupancy were the key driver behind the year-over-year growth. During Q4 2025, operating funds from operations increased by 24% to CAD 34.2 million compared to last year, primarily due to higher NOI as a result of organic growth, in addition to contributions from acquisitions and developments completed in 2025.

Speaker #3: Occupancy in this property increased from the low 80% range before its renovation to over 95% today. Based on the updated same property portfolio composition, average monthly occupancy reached or exceeded 95% since last September.

Speaker #3: In the long-term care segment, same property NOI increased by $1.3 million. Continued improvements in private occupancy were the key driver behind the year-over-year growth.

David Hung: In the long-term care segment, Same Property NOI increased by CAD 1.3 million. Continued improvements in private occupancy were the key driver behind the year-over-year growth. During Q4 2025, operating funds from operations increased by 24% to CAD 34.2 million compared to last year, primarily due to higher NOI as a result of organic growth, in addition to contributions from acquisitions and developments completed in 2025.

Speaker #3: During Q4 2025, operating funds from operations increased by 24% to $34.2 million compared to last year, primarily due to higher NOI as a result of organic growth, in addition to contributions from acquisitions and developments completed in 2025.

Speaker #3: Adjusted funds from operations increased by 19.8% to $27.9 million compared to last year. The increase was mainly due to higher OFFO, offset by an increase in maintenance capital expenditures.

David Hung: Adjusted funds from operations increased by 19.8% to CAD 27.9 million compared to last year. The increase was mainly due to higher OFFO, offset by an increase in maintenance capital expenditures. On a per-share basis, OFFO and AFFO increased by 7.5% and 3.9%, respectively, in Q4 2025. Sienna's Q4 2025 AFFO payout ratio was 80.7%, compared to 83.1% in Q4 2024. This improvement highlights Sienna's strong operating results and the disciplined use of capital the company raised to fund its growth. Sienna delivered consistently strong results throughout 2025. In line with Sienna's 2025 growth targets, same-property NOI for the full year increased by 14.3% in the retirement segment and by 4.8% in long-term care.

Speaker #3: On a per-share basis, OFFO and AFFO increased by 7.5% and 3.9%, respectively, in Q4 2025. Sienna's Q4 2025 AFFO payout ratio was 80.7%, compared to 83.1% in Q4 2024.

Speaker #3: This improvement highlights Sienna's strong operating results and the disciplined use of capital the company raised to fund its growth. Sienna delivered consistently strong results throughout 2025.

David Hung: This improvement highlights Sienna's strong operating results and the disciplined use of capital the company raised to fund its growth. Sienna delivered consistently strong results throughout 2025. In line with Sienna's 2025 growth targets, same-property NOI for the full year increased by 14.3% in the retirement segment and by 4.8% in long-term care.

Speaker #3: In line with Sienna's 2025 growth targets, same property NOI for the full year increased by 14.3% in the retirement segment and by 4.8% in long-term care.

Speaker #3: In addition, Sienna's strong results are reflected in the company's OFFO and AFFO in 2025, which increased by 27.1% and 25.7%, respectively, or by 5.8% and 4.7% on a per-share basis.

David Hung: In addition, Sienna's strong results are reflected in the company's OFFO and AFFO in 2025, which increased by 27.1% and 25.7%, 7%, respectively, or by 5.8% and 4.7% on a per-share basis. Moving to slide 12. Throughout 2025, Sienna maintained a strong financial position and balance sheet. We ended the year with over CAD 500 million in liquidity and CAD 1.5 billion of unencumbered assets. We continue to have access to a broad range of capital, and demand for Sienna's equity and debt remains exceptionally strong. To support Sienna's growth momentum and refinance our debt, we issued CAD 250 million of unsecured debentures in December, and we repaid our CAD 175 million expiring debenture. With this repayment, the company has no major debt maturities until 2027.

Speaker #3: Moving to slide 12, throughout 2025, Sienna maintained a strong financial position and balance sheet. We ended the year with over $500 million in liquidity and $1.5 billion of unencumbered assets.

Speaker #3: We continue to have access to a broad range of capital and demand for Sienna's equity and debt remains exceptionally strong. To support Sienna's growth momentum and refinance our debt, we issued $250 million of unsecured ventures in December, and we repaid our $175 million expiring venture.

David Hung: We continue to have access to a broad range of capital, and demand for Sienna's equity and debt remains exceptionally strong. To support Sienna's growth momentum and refinance our debt, we issued CAD 250 million of unsecured debentures in December, and we repaid our CAD 175 million expiring debenture. With this repayment, the company has no major debt maturities until 2027.

Speaker #3: With this repayment, the company has no major debt maturities until 2027. We also fully deployed our at-the-market distribution program, issuing shares for gross proceeds of approximately $101 million in Q4, and just yesterday we announced the renewal of the ATM program.

David Hung: We also fully deployed our at-the-market distribution program, issuing shares for gross proceeds of approximately CAD 101 million in Q4, and just yesterday, we announced the renewal of the ATM program. This allows the company to issue another CAD 150 million of shares to finance its continued growth initiatives. We will carefully evaluate each opportunity and continue to finance Sienna's growth in a very disciplined manner. With that, I will turn the call back to Nitin for his closing remarks.

Speaker #3: This allows the company to issue another $150 million of shares to finance its continued growth initiatives. We will carefully evaluate each opportunity and continue to finance Sienna's growth in a very disciplined manner.

David Hung: We will carefully evaluate each opportunity and continue to finance Sienna's growth in a very disciplined manner. With that, I will turn the call back to Nitin for his closing remarks.

Speaker #3: With that, I will turn the call back to Nitin for his closing remarks.

Speaker #2: Thank you, David. While the broader economic and geopolitical environment remains uncertain, one long-term trend is very clear: Canada’s senior population is set to grow significantly over the next two decades, with the oldest baby boomer turning 80 this year.

Nitin Jain: Thank you, David. While the broader economic and geopolitical environment remains uncertain, one long-term trend is very clear: Canada's senior population is set to grow significantly over the next two decades, with the oldest baby boomer turning 80 this year. At the same time, senior housing is already operating at high occupancy levels in most markets, and new supply is expected to remain limited for many several years. Against this backdrop, Sienna's assets increased by nearly 30%, with the addition of over CAD 800 million through acquisitions and developments. This has allowed us to add meaningful scale to Sienna's long-term care and retirement platforms, supporting both stability and attractive growth opportunities. With our operating depth, strong balance sheet, and organizational capability to execute, we believe Sienna is in the early stages of a multiyear growth phase.

Speaker #2: At the same time, senior housing is already operating at high occupancy levels in most markets, and new supply is expected to remain limited for several years.

Nitin Jain: Against this backdrop, Sienna's assets increased by nearly 30%, with the addition of over CAD 800 million through acquisitions and developments. This has allowed us to add meaningful scale to Sienna's long-term care and retirement platforms, supporting both stability and attractive growth opportunities. With our operating depth, strong balance sheet, and organizational capability to execute, we believe Sienna is in the early stages of a multiyear growth phase.

Speaker #2: Against this backdrop, Sienna's assets increased by nearly 30%, with the addition of over $800 million through acquisitions and developments. This has allowed us to add meaningful scale to Sienna's long-term care and retirement platforms, supporting both stability and attractive growth opportunities.

Speaker #2: With our operating depth, strong balance sheet, and the organizational capability to execute, we believe Sienna is in the early stages of a multi-year growth phase.

Speaker #2: In the near term, this is reflected in Sienna's growth targets for 2026. We expect same-property NOI growth in excess of 10% in the retirement segment, and in the low single digits in long-term care.

Nitin Jain: In the near term, this is reflected in Sienna's growth targets for 2026. We expect same-property NOI growth in excess of 10% in the retirement segment and in the low single digits in long-term care. We also expect to continue this company's significant growth through acquisitions and further strengthen Sienna's position in the sector. On behalf of our entire team and our board of directors, I want to thank all of you for this call and for your continued support.

Speaker #2: We also expect to continue this company's significant growth through acquisitions, and further strengthen Sienna's position in the sector. On behalf of our entire team and our board of directors, I want to thank all of you for this call and for your continued support.

Speaker #3: Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star one (*) on your telephone keypad to raise your hand to join the queue.

David Hung: Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand to join the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again. We'll take our first question from Lorne Kalmar at Desjardins.

Operator: Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand to join the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again. We'll take our first question from Lorne Kalmar at Desjardins.

Speaker #3: If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again. We'll take our first question from Lauren Kalmar at Desjardins.

Speaker #4: Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Just quickly, on the same property NOI growth expectations for retirement, can you maybe give some color in terms of the rent growth expectations that are underpinning that?

Lorne Kalmar: Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Just quickly on the Same Property NOI growth expectations for retirement, can you maybe give some color in terms of the rent growth expectations that are underpinning that?

Nitin Jain: ... Thank you, Lorne, and good morning. Our rent, our 10%+ is made up of rental growth, care revenue increase, and potential further increase in our occupancy targets. Our rental growth have been quite consistent in the 4% range, and we expect them to stay there. And we will continue to see more care revenue as residents are choosing to stay longer with us, given our, that we are not afraid of providing more care with our with our depth of expertise in long-term care.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Lauren, and good morning. Our 10% plus is made up of rental growth, care revenue increase, and potential further increase in our occupancy targets.

Speaker #2: Our rental growths have been quite consistent in the 4% range, and we expect them to stay there. And we will continue to see more care revenue as residents are choosing to stay longer.

Speaker #2: With us, given that we are not afraid of providing more care with our depth of expertise in long-term care.

Speaker #4: Okay. And then maybe just turning to the growth and optimization portfolio, I think you guys are, what, at about 1,300 homes now? How much NOI upside is there in that portfolio, and how long do you think it’ll take to realize that?

Lorne Kalmar: Okay. And then maybe just turning to the growth and Optimization Portfolio. I think you guys are, what, about 13 homes now? How much NOI upside is there in that portfolio, and how long do you think it'll take to realize that?

David Hung: Yeah, that's a great question, Lorne. So just to clarify, within our growth and optimization portfolio, we only have six properties within the optimization portfolio. The others are assets that we acquired in 2025. In terms of the potential, our margins within the optimization portfolio were at around 24% in Q4, and we would expect over the medium term that would—they would get back towards our same property margins.

Speaker #2: Yeah, that's a great question, Lauren. So, just to clarify, within our growth and optimization portfolio, we only have six properties within the optimization portfolio.

Speaker #2: The others are assets that we acquired in 2025. And in terms of the potential, our margins within the optimization portfolio were at around 24% in Q4, and we would expect over the medium term that they would get back towards our same properties margins.

Speaker #4: Okay. And then I guess on the, I guess, the growth is kind of the ones in lease up and the acquisitions. All right. And then maybe just quickly turning to the Glen Rouge think is Glen Rouge only 159 beds, and if so, is this development replacing multiple Class C homes?

Lorne Kalmar: Okay. And then I guess on the, I guess the growth is kind of the ones in lease-up and, and the acquisitions. All right, and then maybe just quickly turning to the Glen Rouge announcement. If I read correctly, I think is Glen Rouge only 159 beds? And if so, is this development replacing multiple Class C homes?

Nitin Jain: Correct, Lorne. So it replaces Glen Rouge, and it also replaces another home nearby and adds additional capacity. We have quite a bit of land on the site, which is difficult to find in GTA, so we have 4 acres of land at Glen Rouge, so it'll be combining two homes and adding additional beds.

Speaker #2: Correct, Lauren. So it replaces Glen Rouge, and it also replaces another home nearby, and adds additional capacity. We have quite a bit of land on the site, which is difficult to find in the GTA.

Speaker #2: So, we have four acres of land at Glen Rouge, so it'll be combining two homes and adding additional beds.

Speaker #4: Okay, and then maybe just one last quick one. In terms of just how do you plan to fund that development? Would that be on the operating line?

Lorne Kalmar: Okay, and then maybe just one last quick one. In terms of just how do you plan to fund that development? Will that be on the operating line?

David Hung: Yeah, we would be looking at some form of debt, whether it's on the operating line, potentially a construction loan or other form of debt.

Speaker #2: Yeah. We would be looking at some form of debt, whether it's on the operating line, potentially a construction loan, or other form of debt.

David Hung: Yeah, we would be looking at some form of debt, whether it's on the operating line, potentially a construction loan or other form of debt.

Speaker #4: Okay. Perfect. Thanks so much. I'll turn it back.

Lorne Kalmar: Okay, perfect. Thanks so much. I'll turn it back.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Nitin Jain: Thank you.

Speaker #3: And next, we'll move to Jonathan Kelcher at TD Cowen.

Operator: Next, we'll move to Jonathan Kelcher at TD Cowen.

Speaker #4: Thanks. Just continuing on the Glen Rouge development, fair-sized development. Do you envision starting any more developments this year, or is this going to be—given the size—is it just going to sort of carry you through for the next few years?

Jonathan Kelcher: Thanks. Just continuing on the Glen Rouge development, fair size development. Do you envision starting any more developments this year, or is this gonna be sort of, given the size, it's just gonna sort of carry you through for the next few years?

Nitin Jain: Good morning, Jonathan. We have two other projects which are getting close to shell ready, and so we will look at those. One of the commitments we have is not to have our balance sheet too much into development, so that is something we'll continue to manage. We're also now 30% bigger since where we were last year, so we might have a capacity to add another project. But those are some of the things we are assessing, you know, against the potential return of these new developments. So I think too early for us to commit. It's only February, but you know, we might have an opportunity to add another one later in the year.

Speaker #2: Good morning, Jonathan. We have two other projects which are getting close to shovel-ready, and so we would look at those. One of the commitments we have is not to have our balance sheet too much into development.

Speaker #2: So that is something we'll continue to manage. We're also not 30% bigger since where we were last year, so we might have the capacity to add another project.

Speaker #2: But those are some of the things we are assessing, against the potential return of these new developments. So I think it's too early for us to commit.

Nitin Jain: But those are some of the things we are assessing, you know, against the potential return of these new developments. So I think too early for us to commit. It's only February, but you know, we might have an opportunity to add another one later in the year.

Speaker #2: It's only February. But we might have an opportunity to add another one later in the year.

Speaker #4: Okay. And assuming you continue growing, then next year probably for sure, just given that you'll likely be that much bigger? Is that a way to think about it?

Jonathan Kelcher: Okay, and assuming you continue growing, then next year, probably for sure, just given that you'll likely be that much bigger. Is that a way to think about it?

Speaker #2: Correct, and also these projects take multiple years. So when we start Glen Rouge, this is going to take two to three years—three years to complete.

Nitin Jain: Correct. And then also, these projects take multiple years. So when you start Glen Rouge, this is gonna take 2 to 3 years, 3 years to complete. So if you have 2 or 3 projects at the go, we have Keswick, which we expect to complete in the latter half of next year. So when that completes, it gives us more capacity to add something. So for us, it is a bit of a rolling thing of as projects get completed, we'll, you know, we'll get started on the new ones.

Speaker #2: So if you have two or three projects on the go, we have Keswick, which we expect to complete in the later half of next year.

Speaker #2: So when that completes, it gives us more capacity to add something for us. There's a bit of a rolling thing of, as projects get completed, we'll get started on the new ones.

Jonathan Kelcher: Okay, and I guess just switching gears on, like, the cash taxes were a little bit lower than we had anticipated in Q4, and I guess part of that is due to the timing of acquisitions. Can you maybe give a little bit of color on that? And assuming you're gonna be acquiring a similar amount of assets this year, how should we think about cash taxes in 2026?

Speaker #4: And I guess just switching gears on the cash taxes, we're a little bit lower than we had anticipated in Q4. And I guess part of that is due to the timing of acquisitions.

Speaker #4: Can you maybe give a little bit of color on that, and assuming you're going to be acquiring a similar amount of assets this year, how should we think about the cash taxes in 2026?

Speaker #2: Sure. That's a good question, Jonathan. You're absolutely right. Our cash taxes got the benefit of the acquisitions of Highgate and LaSalve, which we did close in December of 2025.

David Hung: Sure. That's a good question, Jonathan. You're, you're absolutely right. Our cash taxes got the benefit of the acquisitions of Highgate and LaSalle, which we did close in December of 2025. And so with the acquisition of those two properties, we were able to take a full year of capital cost allowance deduction, and able to, you know, get a benefit of around CAD 2 million to lower our, our cash taxes in Q4 of 2025.

Speaker #2: And so, with the acquisition of those two properties, we were able to take a full year of capital cost allowance deduction, and able to get a benefit of around $2 million to lower our cash taxes in Q4 of 2025.

Speaker #2: I think as we're thinking about 2026, the way that I would think about it is taking 2024, which had no acquisitions, and 2025, which had $800 million of acquisitions and redevelopment.

David Hung: I think, as you're, as we're thinking about 2026, the way that I would think about it is, taking 2024, which had no acquisitions, and 2025, which had, you know, CAD 800 million of acquisitions and redevelopment, and using a cash tax rate that is somewhere in between those two years. And then, of course, you know, we don't have any kind of forecast in terms of acquisitions for 2026, so that, you know, any additional CCA would have to be layered on top of that for potential acquisitions in this upcoming year.

Speaker #2: And using a cash tax rate that is somewhere in between those two years. And then, of course, we don't have any kind of forecast in terms of acquisitions for 2026.

Speaker #2: So that any additional CCA would have to be layered on top of that for potential acquisitions in this upcoming year.

Speaker #4: Okay, that's helpful. I'll turn it back. Thanks.

Jonathan Kelcher: Okay. That's helpful. I'll turn it back. Thanks.

Speaker #3: We'll go next to Mark Rothchild at Canaccord Genuity.

Operator: We'll go next to Mark Rothschild at Canaccord Genuity.

Speaker #2: Thanks, and good morning. Maybe starting just following up on your comments regard to Lauren, to the 10% growth. What is assumed as far as occupancy increase in that?

Mark Rothschild: Thanks, and good morning. Just following up on your comments, so Lorne, to the 10% growth, what is assumed as far as occupancy increase in that, and how much more improvement in occupancy do you think you can get? So I understand the breakdown in the 10% growth from rent growth versus occupancy.

Speaker #2: And how much more improvement in occupancy do you think you can get, to understand the breakdown and the 10% growth from rent growth versus occupancy?

Speaker #4: Good morning, Mark, and welcome to Sienna's first call for you. Thank you for your coverage. The 10% is a combination of those three.

Nitin Jain: Good morning, Mark, and welcome to Sienna's first call for you, and thank you for your, for your coverage. The 10%, it is a combination of those three, and your question is very fair on ninety-- You know, where occupancy can go from here. We are, for lack of better word, in uncharted territory because 95% occupancy has not happened in retirement before. We continue to believe there is some opportunity to add more, whether that number is 96 or 96.5, frankly, it's a bit too early to tell. And part of it is that at 95% occupancy, we have many homes which are at 100%, 99%, but they're running at full occupancy, and then we have a few which are 93, 94.

Speaker #4: And your question is very fair on where occupancy can go from here. We are, for lack of a better word, in uncharted territory because 95% occupancy has not happened in retirement before.

Nitin Jain: We continue to believe there is some opportunity to add more, whether that number is 96 or 96.5, frankly, it's a bit too early to tell. And part of it is that at 95% occupancy, we have many homes which are at 100%, 99%, but they're running at full occupancy, and then we have a few which are 93, 94.

Speaker #4: We continue to believe there is some opportunity to add more. Whether that number is 96 or 96 and a half, frankly, it's a bit too early to tell.

Speaker #4: And part of it is that at 95% occupancy, we have many homes which are at 100%, 99%. I mean, they're running at full occupancy in the near future, which are 93, 94.

Nitin Jain: So, I would say at this stage, I think saying that we will be around 95% is probably a better answer than to say where it could go from here.

Speaker #4: So I would say at this stage, I think saying that we will be around 95% is probably a better answer than to say where it could go from here.

Nitin Jain: So, I would say at this stage, I think saying that we will be around 95% is probably a better answer than to say where it could go from here.

Speaker #4: Okay. Great. And maybe just one more from me. As far as the acquisitions, which clearly picked up over the past year, just talk a little bit about how the accretion would look, potential accretion would look.

Mark Rothschild: Okay, great. Then maybe just one more for me. As far as the acquisitions, which clearly picked up over the past year, just talk a little bit about how the accretion would look, potential accretion would look, on acquisitions in the current environment at the cap rates that you're gonna have to pay. To what extent does the cost of equity, you know, a higher share price that you have now helped or is needed for these acquisitions? And also, does the fact that you can use partners maybe earn additional fees would help push it into being more accretive.

Speaker #4: On acquisitions in the current environment of the cap rates that you're going to have to pay. To what extent does the cost of equity, a higher share price, that you have now help or is needed for these acquisitions?

Speaker #4: And also, does the fact that you can use partners, maybe earn additional fees, what helps push it into being more accretive?

Speaker #2: I think your answer is in the question you asked, Mark. It's a combination of quite a few of those things. We are very sensitive about partners.

Nitin Jain: I think your answer is in the question you asked, Mark. It's a combination of quite a few of those things. We are very sensitive about partners. We have very few select partners that we continue to work with, including Sabra, which is our biggest partnership, and with Reitman, where we have now two partnerships, where it's difficult to find people who think the same way and are aligned, but we, we fortunately have two partners such as those. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't see us getting big into partnerships just to earn management fees. I think our goal would be to do partnership. It makes strategic sense. End of the day, we are owners and operators of senior living. And you know, cap rates reflect what is happening in the public market as well.

Speaker #2: We have very few, select partners that we continue to work with, including Sabra, which is our biggest partnership, and with Reitman, where we now have two partnerships. It's difficult to find people who think the same way and align, but we fortunately have two partners such as those.

Speaker #2: So I wouldn't see us getting big into partnerships just to earn management fees. I think our goal would be to do partnerships if it makes strategic sense.

Nitin Jain: So I wouldn't, I wouldn't see us getting big into partnerships just to earn management fees. I think our goal would be to do partnership. It makes strategic sense. End of the day, we are owners and operators of senior living. And you know, cap rates reflect what is happening in the public market as well.

Speaker #2: At the end of the day, we are owners and operators. Of senior living. And cap rates reflect what is happening in the public market as well.

Nitin Jain: Whenever we underwrite something, we underwriting for the long term, so we're very focused on ensuring each property is assessed on a debt-neutral basis because it is always easier to buy something just on debt. So I think it's for lack of better word, business as usual. We see a decline in cap rates. So we just bought the senior apartment building at 5.75 cap rate, which we would not have done four years back because we were trading differently.

Speaker #2: And whenever we underwrite something, we are underwriting it for the long term. So we're very focused on ensuring each property is assessed on a debt-neutral basis, because it is always easier to buy something just on debt.

Speaker #2: So I think it's, for lack of a better word, business as usual. We see a decline in cap rates. We just bought the senior apartment building at a 5.75% cap rate, which we would not have done four years back because we were trading differently.

Speaker #2: But market has recognized that there is a cap rate differential. And we feel there is still a big gap into where long-term care cap rates are, for example, and what we're seeing in the public space, where a lot of people will assess it in seven-plus.

Nitin Jain: But, market is recognizing, that there is a cap rate differential, and we feel there is still a big gap into where long-term care cap rates are, for example, and where, what we are seeing in the public space, where a lot of people were assessed in 7+, and, we haven't found a single long-term care home for sale, you know, above 7%. They're more in the 6.5 to 6.75% range.

Speaker #2: And we haven't found a single long-term care home for sale above 7%. They're more in the 6.5% to 6.75% range.

Speaker #4: Okay, that's very helpful. Thank you so much. I'll turn it back.

Mark Rothschild: Okay, that's very helpful. Thank you so much. I'll turn it back.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Nitin Jain: Thank you.

Speaker #3: We'll move next to Tom Callaghan at BMO Capital Markets.

Operator: We'll move next to Tom Callaghan at BMO Capital Markets.

Speaker #4: Thanks. Good morning, guys. Maybe just sticking with the acquisition side of things—can you talk a little bit about the pipeline today, and whether or not that's weighted towards one side of the business versus the other?

Tom Callaghan: Thanks. Good morning, guys. Maybe just sticking with the acquisition side of things. Can you just talk a little bit about the pipeline today and whether or not that's weighted towards one side of the business versus the other? And then maybe just geographically speaking, where are you seeing the most opportunity?

Speaker #4: And then, maybe just geographically speaking, where are you seeing the most opportunity?

David Hung: Yeah, no, thanks, thanks, Tom, for that question. You know, because we are a diversified company, we operate both in long-term care and retirement, we actually are seeing opportunities in both lines of businesses, and we continue to pursue acquisitions in both lines of businesses. You know, in terms of where we're finding opportunities, they actually are across all the provinces that we operate, Ontario, Alberta, BC. You know, and we are quite selective in terms of what we're looking for, but, but, you know, the pipeline remains robust and, we continue to be actively looking for opportunities.

Speaker #5: Yeah. No, thanks. Thanks, Tom, for that question. Because we are a diversified company, we operate both in long-term care and retirement. We are actually seeing opportunities in both lines of businesses.

Speaker #5: And we continue to pursue acquisitions in both lines of business. In terms of where we're finding opportunities, they actually are across all the provinces that we operate.

David Hung: You know, in terms of where we're finding opportunities, they actually are across all the provinces that we operate, Ontario, Alberta, BC. You know, and we are quite selective in terms of what we're looking for, but, but, you know, the pipeline remains robust and, we continue to be actively looking for opportunities.

Speaker #5: Ontario, Alberta, and B.C., and we are quite selective in terms of what we're looking for. But the pipeline remains robust, and we continue to be actively looking for opportunities.

Speaker #4: Okay. Got it. And then maybe just to build on that, do you have a preference geographically speaking? When you evaluate these different opportunities, obviously, almost a year ago now, you entered into Alberta.

Tom Callaghan: Okay, got it. And then maybe just to build on that, like, do you have a preference, geographically speaking, like, when you evaluate these different opportunities? Obviously, you know, almost a year ago now, you entered into Alberta. So just how are you thinking about capital allocation from a geographic perspective as you work through these opportunities?

Speaker #4: So, just how are you thinking about capital allocation from a geographic perspective as you work through these opportunities?

Nitin Jain: Tom, we don't really have an allocation at this stage, you know, but I guess broadly speaking, we don't. We have 1 retirement home in Alberta, which we manage for Sabra. We don't own any, so I think if you buy 2, we'll suddenly grow up by 200% there. So, we find Alberta do have a lot of opportunity because we're not there yet. We only have 4 long-term care homes. In Ontario, we have quite a bit of long-term care and retirement homes, but there are also a lot more opportunities in Ontario. So I think it's a bit hard to tell you.

Speaker #2: Tom, we don't really have an allocation at this stage. But I guess broadly, speaking, we don't. We have one retirement home in Alberta, which we manage for Sabra.

Speaker #2: We don't own any, so I think if you buy two, we'll suddenly grow up by 200% there. So we find Alberta to have a lot of opportunity because we're not there yet.

Speaker #2: We only have four long-term care homes. In Ontario, we have quite a bit of long-term care and retirement homes. But there are also a lot more opportunities in Ontario.

Speaker #2: So I think it's a bit hard to tell you. For us, the bigger focus is making sure it's big enough building, the age of the building, the location of the building, the size of the population, that is in the market area.

Nitin Jain: For us, the bigger focus is making sure it's a big enough building, the age of the building, the location of the building, the size of the population that is in the market area. So for us, that is more important versus with geography, we much might, might be. And as David mentioned, the fact we can drive on both lanes on the highway of long-term care and retirement, that has been very effective for us.

Speaker #2: So for us, that is more important. Versus with geography, we're might be in. And as David mentioned, the fact we can drive on both lanes on the highway of long-term care and retirement, that has been very effective for us.

Speaker #4: Got it. Makes sense, Nitin. Thanks. Maybe just last one for me on the expense side of things. Growth is clearly moderated there. Agency staffing down materially.

Tom Callaghan: Got it. Makes sense, Nitin. Thanks. Maybe just last one for me on the expense side of things. Like, growth is clearly moderated there, you know, agency staffing down materially. And, Nitin, I think you mentioned-

Speaker #4: And Nitin, I think you mentioned turnover at record loads in Q4 there. So just how are you thinking about overall expense growth into 2026?

Operator 1: ... turnover at record loads in Q4 there. So just how you think about overall expense growth into 2026, and are there areas where you see opportunity for further efficiency gains?

Tom Callaghan: ... turnover at record loads in Q4 there. So just how you think about overall expense growth into 2026, and are there areas where you see opportunity for further efficiency gains?

Speaker #4: And are there areas where you see opportunity for further efficiency gains?

David Hung: Yeah, I mean, the way we're looking at 2026 is that our operating expenses would be relatively in line with inflation. We think we've done a really good job at, you know, being efficient with respect to our expenses. So I wouldn't say that there'd be a lot more, you know, areas of opportunity, let's say, in agency or whatnot. But, you know, we would continue to be very disciplined with our costs, and it would grow in line with inflation.

Speaker #5: Yeah, I mean, the way we're looking at 2026 is that our operating expenses would be relatively in line with inflation. We think we've done a really good job at being efficient with respect to our expenses.

Speaker #5: So I wouldn't say that there'd be a lot more areas of opportunity, let's say, in agency or whatnot. But we would continue to be very disciplined with our costs, and it would grow in line with inflation.

Speaker #4: Got it. Thanks, David. I'll turn it back.

Operator 1: Got it. Thanks, David. I'll, I'll turn it back.

Tom Callaghan: Got it. Thanks, David. I'll, I'll turn it back.

Speaker #3: And we'll go next to Himanshu Gupta at Scotiabank.

Operator: We'll go next to Himanshu Gupta at Scotiabank.

Speaker #6: Thank you, and good morning. So first, on retirement home occupancy—anything on the flu season? How did that impact things? How did you handle it? And then, how is the February or March occupancy looking like?

Himanshu Gupta: Thank you, and good morning. So first on retirement home occupancy, anything on the flu season? How did that impact? How did you handle? And then how's the February or March occupancy looking like?

Speaker #2: Hi. Good morning. Himanshu. So we are not seeing a huge impact of the flu season. Isnaliti, we haven't disclosed February and March results yet.

Nitin Jain: Hi, good morning, Himanshu. So, we are not seeing a huge impact of the flu season, seasonality. We haven't disclosed February and March results yet. You know, we might see some softness here or there, and I think I would say this would be across the whole year, you know, in question, which was asked earlier, where do we go from here? In our mind, when you're at 95% occupancy, you're running pretty close to perfection. So, if we, let's say if we have a month, which is 94.5, and I'm not foreshadowing what February, March would be, I'm using it as an example.

Speaker #2: We might see some softness here or there, and I think I would say this would be across the whole year. In the question which was asked earlier—where do we go from here?

Speaker #2: In our mind, when you're 95% occupancy, you're running pretty close to perfection. So if we, let's say, if we have a month which is 94.5 and I'm not foreshadowing what February-March would be, I'm using that as an example.

Nitin Jain: In our mind, when you're at 95% occupancy, you're running pretty close to perfection. So, if we, let's say if we have a month, which is 94.5, and I'm not foreshadowing what February, March would be, I'm using it as an example.

Speaker #2: I would think more of it is that this is just in our mind. You're 94.5 or 95.5—it's pretty close to what 95% occupancy looks like.

Nitin Jain: I would think more of it is that this is just, you know, in our mind, you're at 94.5 or 95.5, is pretty close to what 95% occupancy looks like. And the goal is to inch towards an average of 96 throughout the year as you progress, because that's, you know, would be the next milestone, I guess. We don't... But we don't think that's more seasonality. I would say that's just more an idea of you have many homes which are running at 100%. If they run at 98, that's still excellent operations, but it might reduce your occupancy by a few, you know, 10, 20 basis points.

Speaker #2: And the goal is to inch towards an average of 96 throughout the year. As you progress, because that's would be the next milestone, I guess.

Speaker #2: So but we don't think that's more seasonality. I would say that's just more an idea of you have many homes which are running at 100%.

Speaker #2: If they run at 98, that's still excellent operations. But it might reduce your occupancy by a few—10, 20 basis points.

Speaker #6: Okay, fair enough. So, nothing meaningful as such in terms of impact from flu season. Okay, fair enough. And then, moving from stabilized to growth portfolio, how's the lease-up coming on the High-Gate property in Waterloo?

Himanshu Gupta: Okay, fair enough. So nothing meaningful as such impact from flu season.

Nitin Jain: Yeah, correct.

Himanshu Gupta: Okay, fair enough. Then moving from, you know, stabilized to kind of growth portfolio, how's the leaseup coming on the Highgate property in Waterloo? Like, what kind of expectation do you have for stabilization there?

Speaker #6: What kind of expectation do you have for stabilization there?

Nitin Jain: We don't really get into individual property, but we had a certain expectation from underwriting. You know, let's say it's 18 months or so to stabilize from 60% to 95% plus. We are well on our way. We had some good early wins on that property. So it's, it's tracking what we, where we thought it would be, if not a little bit better.

Speaker #2: We don't really get into individual property, but we had a certain expectation from underwriting—let's say it's 18 months or so to stabilize from 60% to 95% plus.

Speaker #2: We are well on our way. We had some good early wins on that property, so it's tracking what we thought it would be, if not a little bit better.

Speaker #6: Got it. I mean, the reason I ask is, is there a template for your kind of growth portfolio? Like, the time frame to stabilize this property from 65 or 70 percent to 95%, is it like 18 months or so?

Himanshu Gupta: Got it. I mean, the reason I ask, is that, like a template for your kind of growth portfolio? Like, you know, like, the timeframe to stabilize this property from, like, 65 or 70% to, like, 95%, like 18 months or so? Like, fair to say that?

Speaker #6: Fair to say that?

Nitin Jain: I guess it is fair to say that, but the reality is this is a one-off, and what I mean by that is the rest of the properties we bought were way ahead in occupancy. The Bartlett is close to 97%. So you know, if you find something in lower occupancy, yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing that we can potentially get at least a faster, you know, given our scale, if you're buying from an individual owner-operator. But you know, it really is a mix of things.

Speaker #2: I guess it is fair to say that. But the reality is this is a one-off. And what I mean by that is the rest of the properties we bought were way ahead in occupancy.

Speaker #2: The Bartlet is close to 97%. So if you find something at a lower occupancy, yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing that we can potentially get, at least faster, given our scale.

Speaker #2: If you're buying from an individual owner-operator, but it really is a mix of things. In high-gait, we think that opportunity exists. But for many others, we bought them at near stabilization.

Nitin Jain: In Highgate, we think that opportunity exists, but for many others, we bought them at near stabilization, and I think that's a good diverse mix where you have some which are accretive right away, and there's some which will have accretion in 18 months or 24 months, but you will have an opportunity to have a bit extra, which is would be the case in Highgate.

Speaker #2: And I think that's a good diverse mix where you have some which are accretive right away and there's some which will have accretion in 18 months or 24 months.

Speaker #2: But you will have an opportunity to have a bit extra, which would be the case in high-gait.

Speaker #6: Got it. Okay, thank you. And then on the optimization, I think, David, you mentioned 24% margins in Q4.

Himanshu Gupta: Got it. Okay, thank you. And then on the optimization, I think, David, you mentioned 24% margins in Q4.

Speaker #2: That's correct.

David Hung: That's correct.

Himanshu Gupta: Did you give any time frame of, you know, getting to that, like, similar to Same Property margin?

Speaker #6: And did you give any time frame of getting to that similar-to-same property? Margins?

Himanshu Gupta: Did you give any time frame of, you know, getting to that, like, similar to Same Property margin?

David Hung: No, we haven't given any time frames. But what I would say is that we are continually working on our Optimization Portfolio. You know, case in point, we had one property that we did, you know, significant renovations to. We were able to get the occupancy from 80 to 95%, and so we've moved that out of the portfolio. Now, that being said, we also moved two in. So we're gonna, you know, on an ongoing basis, have, you know, maybe one or two movements within the Optimization Portfolio. But, you know, our intention is to get them out of the Optimization Portfolio as soon as possible.

Speaker #5: No, we haven't given any time frames. But what I would say is that we are continually working on our optimization portfolio. Case in point, we had one property that we did significant renovations to.

Speaker #5: And we were able to get the occupancy from 80 to 95 percent. And so we've moved that out of the portfolio now. That being said, we also moved two in.

David Hung: Now, that being said, we also moved two in. So we're gonna, you know, on an ongoing basis, have, you know, maybe one or two movements within the Optimization Portfolio. But, you know, our intention is to get them out of the Optimization Portfolio as soon as possible.

Speaker #5: So we're going to, on an ongoing basis, have maybe one or two movements within the optimization portfolio. But our intention is to get them out of the optimization portfolio as soon as possible.

Speaker #6: Got it. Okay. Fantastic. Maybe just the last question now. I mean, the popular Toronto Glenrouge project you announced. I mean, if I look at the development yield, it's very similar to Northbay.

Himanshu Gupta: Got it. Okay, fantastic. Maybe just the last question now. I mean, the popular Toronto Glen Rouge project you announced. I mean, if I look at the development yield, it's very similar to North Bay or maybe slightly lower than North Bay. While, you know, the government funding has increased significantly in that project in GTA now. I mean, I would have thought, you know, like, yield would have been even higher than North Bay. Just can you elaborate? Is there a reason it's 7.5 to 8 here?

Speaker #6: Or maybe slightly lower than Northbay. While the government funding has increased significantly in that project in GDA now, I mean, I would have thought the yield would have been even higher than Northbay.

Speaker #6: Just, can you elaborate? Is there a reason it's 7.5 to 8 here?

Nitin Jain: Sure, Himanshu. The whole idea is, I think we should expect similar yields, what we saw in North Bay, which was close to 8%. We would see similar for GTA projects. When the funding went up significantly, it wasn't that projects had a 7% yield, and the idea was to get them to 10%. The reason government increased this construction funding significantly is that prior to that increase, projects were not viable. Like, your yields were 4%. So doubling it will get it to 7.5, 8%, and some of it, it just, you know, this will take a bit longer, you know, this, you know, the number of beds, you're adding new versus old. So it, that all goes into the math.

Speaker #2: Sure, Himanshu. The whole idea is, I think we should expect similar yields to what we saw in North Bay, which was close to 8%. We would see similar for GTA projects.

Speaker #2: When the funding went up significantly, it wasn't that projects had a 7% yield and the idea was to get them to 10. The reason government increased the construction funding significantly is that prior to that increase, projects were not viable.

Speaker #2: Your yields were 4%. So doubling it will get it to 7.5%, 8%. And some of it is just, this will take a bit longer.

Nitin Jain: So doubling it will get it to 7.5, 8%, and some of it, it just, you know, this will take a bit longer, you know, this, you know, the number of beds, you're adding new versus old. So it, that all goes into the math.

Speaker #2: This is the number of beds—you're adding new versus old—so that all goes into the math. But in our mind, if you're around in that 8% range, that's probably a good expectation, what you should expect from long-term care projects, development, regardless of where they are in the province.

Nitin Jain: But the, you know, in our mind, if you are around in that 8% range, that's probably a good expectation, what you should expect from long-term care projects, development, regardless of where they are in the province, and the funding reflects that.

Speaker #2: And the funding reflects that.

Speaker #6: Got it. Thank you. I have a couple more, but I'll go back in the line now. Okay.

Sairam Srinivas: Got it. Thank you. I have a couple more, but I'll go back in the line now. Okay.

Himanshu Gupta: Got it. Thank you. I have a couple more, but I'll go back in the line now. Okay.

Speaker #2: Okay. Thank you, Himanshu.

Nitin Jain: Okay. Thank you, Himanshu.

Speaker #6: We'll go next to Juliano Thornhill at National Bank.

Operator: We'll go next to Giuliano Thornhill at National Bank.

Speaker #7: Hi.

Speaker #8: Hey, guys. Good morning, everyone. I just had a question on the guidance. Why not provide something more tightened? And is this you being cautious, or are you kind of more unsure of the improvements in the remainder of the same property portfolio that's unoccupied?

Giuliano Thornhill: Hey, guys. Good morning, everyone. I just had a question on the guidance. Why not provide something more, like, tightened? And is this you being cautious, or are you kind of more unsure of the improvements in the remainder of the same property portfolio that's unoccupied?

Nitin Jain: Hi, Giuliano. I wouldn't call it cautious. I mean, this is, beginning of the year, where we expect, 10%+, retirement thing, which in our mind is realistic, and low single digits for long-term care. And, and without, you know, getting into, is it exactly CAD 600 million and CAD 200 million of development, our idea is that last year was not an anomaly, and we should expect a year of growth. So I wouldn't call it, conservative or optimistic. I would call it realistic at this stage. And if, numbers get better, we will, we will, we'll update our outlook at that point.

Speaker #2: Hi, Juliano. I wouldn't call it cautious. I mean, this is the beginning of the year. We expect a 10% plus retirement thing, which in our mind is realistic.

Speaker #2: And low single digits for long-term care. And without getting into is it exactly $600 million down and $200 million of development, our idea is that last year was not an anomaly, and we should expect a year of growth.

Speaker #2: So, I wouldn’t call it conservative or optimistic; I would call it realistic at this stage. And if numbers get better, we will update our outlook at that point.

Speaker #8: And would you describe the kind of unoccupied portfolios as similar quality as the already occupied kind of stuff, or is it—is the pace of leasing going to be similar to what we've seen historically?

Giuliano Thornhill: Would you describe the kind of unoccupied portfolio as similar quality as the already occupied kind of stuff, or is it... Like, like, is the pace of leasing going to be similar to what we've seen historically?

Nitin Jain: Yeah, the pace of leasing would be similar. And case in point would be, we had one property which we removed from Optimization Portfolio because it got fully optimized, and we put two new in. And there's a chance that something which is running at 95%+ in four years from now might go back into Optimization Portfolio. Case in point, we have property in Ottawa, sorry, in Kingston, which is doing well, but we realized there's a good amount of competition. We need to add more care. It needs a much intense renovation, which is hard to do without closing down suites. So we put it back into Optimization Portfolio, and when it'll come back, you know, our goal is it'll get to 95%+. So some of it is continued occupancy gains in the homes, which are not 90%.

Speaker #2: Yeah, yeah. The pace of leasing would be similar. And case in point would be, we had one property which we removed from optimization because it got fully optimized.

Speaker #2: And you put two new in. And there's a chance that something which is running at 95% plus in four years from now might go back into optimization portfolio.

Speaker #2: Case in point, we have property in Ottawa—sorry, in Kingston—which is doing well. But we realized there's a good amount of competition. We need to add more care.

Nitin Jain: We need to add more care. It needs a much intense renovation, which is hard to do without closing down suites. So we put it back into Optimization Portfolio, and when it'll come back, you know, our goal is it'll get to 95%+. So some of it is continued occupancy gains in the homes, which are not 90%.

Speaker #2: It needs a much intense renovation. Which is hard to do without closing down suites. So we put it back into optimization. And when it'll come back, our goal is it'll get to 95% plus.

Speaker #2: So some of it is continued occupancy gains in the homes which are not 90%. Some of it might be you have homes which are delivering at 95% plus.

Nitin Jain: Some of it might be of homes which are delivering at 95%+. But we know, all of them have a life cycle, in terms, especially retirement homes. Similar to hotels, you need to go through, you know, renovations at certain period of time, and we will continue to see that in our retirement portfolio.

Speaker #2: But we know all of them have a life cycle and especially retirement homes. Similar to hotels, you need to go through renovations, add certain period of time.

Speaker #2: And we will continue to see that in our retirement portfolio.

Speaker #8: And yeah, just going to the optimization portfolio. I'm just wondering, is that win that you had during the year that 10% kind of occupancy uptake, is that out of the normal?

Giuliano Thornhill: Yeah, just going to the Optimization Portfolio, I'm just wondering: is that win that you had during the year, that 10% kind of occupancy uptick, is that, like, out of the normal? Can you expect that for the remainder that are in there, or, like, over 12 months, that's a pretty big increase? So I'm just wondering if that's what we should expect for what's being moved into there.

Speaker #8: Can you expect that further remainder that are in there, or over 12 months—that's a pretty big increase? So, I'm just wondering if that's what we should expect for what's being moved into there.

David Hung: Yeah, I think that, I mean, it was a significant increase, you know, over the last year. But that being said, I mean, we were working off of a relatively, you know, low base. So the fact that we increased our NOI by 22% year-over-year was off of a low base. We would expect that going forward, we would continue to have, you know, outsized growth relative to our Same Property portfolio, just because there's so much more opportunity in those properties.

Speaker #5: Yeah, I think that—I mean, it was a significant increase over the last year. But that being said, I mean, we were working off of a relatively low base.

Speaker #5: So, the fact that we increased our NOI by 22% year over year was off of a low base. We would expect that, going forward, we would continue to have outsized growth relative to our same property portfolio, just because there's so much more opportunity in those properties.

Speaker #8: Okay. Just the last one that I had is I'm just wondering for the GTA project that was announced. Are any of the costs recognized for the land recognized on your balance sheet?

Giuliano Thornhill: Okay. Just the last one that I had is: I'm just wondering for the GTA project that was announced, are any of the costs recognized for the land recognized on your balance sheet? And also, where did the incremental beds come from?

Speaker #8: And also, where did the incremental debt come from?

Speaker #5: I can comment on the land, which is on existing land for the property that we own, so there's no incremental cost for that.

David Hung: I can comment on the land, which the land is on existing land for the property that we own. So there is no, you know, incremental cost for that. We already own it, so that's just part of our inherent cost.

Speaker #5: We already own it, so that's just part of our inherent cost.

Speaker #8: And this project, we put in an application. We have been working on this project for the last four years. So we put in an application for 448 beds four years ago.

Nitin Jain: This project, we put in an application. We have been working on this project for the last 4 years, so we put in an application for 448 beds 4 years ago, with the intention one day that things will work out, and we will build, and that has happened now. So we had the additional licenses that were given to us to build this.

Speaker #8: With the intention one day that things will work out, and we will build, and that has happened now. So we had the additional licenses that were given to us to build this.

Speaker #8: Okay. So from a nearby operator, that's where it's going. Okay. Thank you, guys.

Giuliano Thornhill: Okay. So not from, not from a nearby operator. That's where it's going. Okay. Thank you, guys.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Nitin Jain: Thank you.

Speaker #6: Next, we'll move to Seiram Srinivas at ATB Coremark Capital Markets.

Operator: Next, we'll move to Sairam Srinivas at ATB Capital Markets.

Speaker #9: Thank you, Arvinda. Good morning, guys, and congrats on a good quarter. Most of my questions have already been answered over here, but I just want to ask a quick question on supply.

Sairam Srinivas: Thank you, operator. Good morning, guys, and congrats on a good quarter. You know, most of my questions have already been answered over here, but I just wanna ask a quick question on supply. There's a bit of a narrative that, you know, we are starting to see some start this year with hope that we'll probably see some build-up in supply towards 2029, 2030. Going with your experience on development and retirement, are you seeing economic rents finally pan up to a point where we could see supply take off, and are you seeing supply kind of build up in some of your markets there?

Speaker #9: There's a bit of a narrative that we are starting to see some starts this year with hope that they'll probably see some build-up in supply towards 2930.

Speaker #9: Going with your experience on development and retirement, are you seeing economic trends finally pan up to a point where we could see supply take off?

Sairam Srinivas: Going with your experience on development and retirement, are you seeing economic rents finally pan up to a point where we could see supply take off, and are you seeing supply kind of build up in some of your markets there?

Speaker #9: And are you seeing supply kind of build up in some of your markets here?

Nitin Jain: Hi, good morning. On the question of supply, there was, you know, quite a bit that is coming on supply. I would just maybe talk about four or five different things. One is, as numbers get better, there would be an opportunity to develop, and we just did one in Brantford, which is open, which is a campus of care. But given our demographics, knowing that retirement homes are 95% occupancy, and there are quite a few retirement homes which will get obsolete, we don't own any one of them. The reality is we do need more retirement homes. So I think new supply is not a bad thing, just from a community perspective, because we need more retirement space. We are not seeing massive builds or retirement build.

Speaker #2: Hi. Good morning. On the question of supply, there was quite a bit that is coming on supply. I would just maybe talk about four or five different things.

Speaker #2: One is, as numbers get better, there would be an opportunity to develop. And we just did one in Brantford, which is open, which is a campus of care.

Nitin Jain: But given our demographics, knowing that retirement homes are 95% occupancy, and there are quite a few retirement homes which will get obsolete, we don't own any one of them. The reality is we do need more retirement homes. So I think new supply is not a bad thing, just from a community perspective, because we need more retirement space. We are not seeing massive builds or retirement build.

Speaker #2: Given our demographics, knowing that retirement homes at 95% occupancy, and there are quite a few retirement homes which will get obsolete, we don't own any one of them.

Speaker #2: The reality is we do need more retirement homes. So I think new supply is not a bad thing. Just from a community perspective, because we need more retirement space.

Speaker #2: We are not seeing massive builds. Our retirement build—these projects do take a long period of time. So if you and I put our money together and we buy land, I think it's probably 18 months from today to start construction, and then 24 months after that for it to open.

Nitin Jain: These projects do take a long period of time. So if you and I put our money together and we buy land, I think it's probably 18 months from today to start construction and then 24 months after that for it to open. So even if there was a lot of supply, which we're not seeing at that moment, you're 3 years away from it impacting any part of the market. And again, we have to factor in the demographic change because we are now in a place where baby boomers are coming into senior living, and we also have to factor in the, you know, the obsolete retirement homes, which would no longer be needed. So I think it's getting new supply is a good thing. It is not coming in fast.

Speaker #2: So even if there was a lot of supply, which we're not seeing at the moment, you're three years away from it impacting any part of the market.

Nitin Jain: And again, we have to factor in the demographic change because we are now in a place where baby boomers are coming into senior living, and we also have to factor in the, you know, the obsolete retirement homes, which would no longer be needed. So I think it's getting new supply is a good thing. It is not coming in fast.

Speaker #2: And again, we have to factor in the demographic change, because we are now in a place where baby boomers are coming into senior living.

Speaker #2: And we also have to factor in the obsolete retirement homes, which would know longer be needed. So I think it's getting new supply is a good thing.

Speaker #2: It is not coming in fast. The other thing which has changed is, we remember buying an 80-bed retirement home for $16 million. So it was a very different cost to build.

Nitin Jain: The other thing which has changed is, we remember buying a 80-bed retirement home for CAD 16 million. So it was a very different cost to build. It was a very different cost to buy. We are now buying properties, you know, close to CAD 100 million a home. So it is not a development business for someone who sold something and now wants to get into retirement business. These projects have become complex. They have become bigger, they have become a lot more expensive. So you'll see a lot more sophisticated senior living providers started to build, and for them, they want to make sure the numbers pan out. So I think there'll be a lot more discipline than you might have seen in the past.

Speaker #2: It was a very different cost to buy. We are now buying properties close to $100 million a home. So it is not development business for someone who sold something and now wants to get into retirement business.

Speaker #2: This project has become complex. They have become bigger. They have become a lot more expensive. So you'll see a lot more sophisticated senior living providers started to build.

Nitin Jain: These projects have become complex. They have become bigger, they have become a lot more expensive. So you'll see a lot more sophisticated senior living providers started to build, and for them, they want to make sure the numbers pan out. So I think there'll be a lot more discipline than you might have seen in the past.

Speaker #2: And for them, they want to make sure the numbers pan out. So I think there’ll be a lot more discipline than you might have seen in the past.

Sairam Srinivas: That makes sense. Thanks, Ezzen, I'll turn back.

Speaker #9: That makes sense. Thanks, Nitin. I'll turn it back.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Nitin Jain: Thank you.

Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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